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petroniaHave a canned post. XD
I made a note of it when T and I finished watching the second season of Honey and Clover, but I can't find the entry or comment and now I don't even remember when that was. ^^; Early August, probably. If you wrote up thoughts on the series after having watched it uhh a year or two ago, drop me a link - I like reading old reviews.
More than anything it felt like a series one relates to insofar as it resonates with personal experience - art school, or the pattern of romance/friendship entanglements within a small social circle, or maybe just the general lameness of being in your mid-twenties and feeling like you're far from any semblance of getting your shit together. In a genre that's mostly about finding your One True Love before the age of majority, Hachikuro's the only anime I've ever watched in which the main characters were 20something college kids who don't have much income, can't get laid, struggle with undefined life goals and hang out with the same five people all the time, i.e. live what I recognize as real lives. XD;; The pacing is that of real life too: entirely absorbing from moment to moment, though when you stop to think you realize YEARS HAVE PASSED and all the characters have done is tread water. Yet when things do happen, they happen too fast, regardless of whether the change was good or bad, planned or out of the blue. As such my (and I think T's) enjoyment of the thing felt mixed. I keep relating it to Nana, which is also built on a contract (so to speak) of emotional veracity, but is filled with the kind of people who don't have any trouble getting laid. Or maybe, rather than talking about "trouble", I should talk about "standards". XDD Though I do believe there are two fundamental types in the world: people whose romantic drama is mostly characterized by what happens, and people whose romantic drama is mostly characterized by what doesn't happen (which is not to say the drama doesn't exist, far from it). Nana is all about the former, Hachikuro is all about the latter. In the end it asks the question I never think to ask, namely Is it worth it? But then I always answer Yes.
I identified most with the episodes about creative drive, I think, and the conundrum of talent - more surprised that the series went there than anything else. Had a somewhat unsatisfactory discussion with T about it on the drive back. ^^; I was telling someone recently that insofar as I can emotionally relate to the idea of God at all, it's God as Creator - in the beginning there was the Word, that makes sense to me. The flipside to that is that I can't reconcile the fact of lack of talent, in the way it's touched on in the series. Is it crueller to assume that everyone is born with a gift that goes undiscovered for most, or that some are denied the light no matter how long and deeply they love? Then there's the opposite case, like Hagu. My reaction to the ending is mixed too - I was sort of shipping Morita/Hagu, except there's no way one could call it "shipping" because, I mean. Shiz is disastrous. XD; I would have a firmer position if I could parse the opportunity cost of Hagu's decision, but it's harder than it looks. Evidently she chooses the environment that would best allow her to grow as an artist, over... what? Romantic love? (O rly?) A meeting of sensibilities, genius sparking off genius? Growth as a person? In what sense? Hagu does open up throughout the series, and in some ways she's very strong, but in others she's... hapless. If Morita ever made her less hapless it would be through subsuming her, but I never get a stronger sense of regression off Hagu than when Morita does something to upset her and she goes running back to Shuuji for comfort. I can't put my finger on why it makes me sad. XD; Evidently Hagu knows what she wants, and what she values from her own life is what most of the world values about her anyway, so...
Probably the case conflicts with my own deep-seated neuroses. XD I find it impossible to rid myself of the idea that personal strength equals lack of fear, and that one grows by learning to need other people less. Or maybe it's just easier to identify with Morita himself, who can't throw it all away for the sake of his art. Even if I can't clearly state what Hagu's throwing away.
In comparison the Mayama-Rika-Ayu situation is easier to sympathize with, all around. XD
There's the music. It's not so much that the soundtrack is perfect for the series, so much as Umino Chika clearly wrote her story around the songs themselves, to give the emotions evoked by them somewhere to call home. I think this because I do it all the time. XD Sometimes a song is oneself, or someone one knows; failing that it could be associated with a character or a work of fiction. But as often as not one has to imagine the video treatment. I've always thought SPITZ was music that best expressed the sensation of biking on country roads through green fields and small towns; it's uncanny. XD
More props to Umino - IMO Hachimitsu and Clover are SPITZ's and Suga Shikao's best albums respectively (or were when the manga began serialization). They're both focussed, early efforts with snappy rhythms and relatively airy production, less with the compressed pop gloss and orchestral balladry. Not that I have a problem with balladry. XD
I made a note of it when T and I finished watching the second season of Honey and Clover, but I can't find the entry or comment and now I don't even remember when that was. ^^; Early August, probably. If you wrote up thoughts on the series after having watched it uhh a year or two ago, drop me a link - I like reading old reviews.
More than anything it felt like a series one relates to insofar as it resonates with personal experience - art school, or the pattern of romance/friendship entanglements within a small social circle, or maybe just the general lameness of being in your mid-twenties and feeling like you're far from any semblance of getting your shit together. In a genre that's mostly about finding your One True Love before the age of majority, Hachikuro's the only anime I've ever watched in which the main characters were 20something college kids who don't have much income, can't get laid, struggle with undefined life goals and hang out with the same five people all the time, i.e. live what I recognize as real lives. XD;; The pacing is that of real life too: entirely absorbing from moment to moment, though when you stop to think you realize YEARS HAVE PASSED and all the characters have done is tread water. Yet when things do happen, they happen too fast, regardless of whether the change was good or bad, planned or out of the blue. As such my (and I think T's) enjoyment of the thing felt mixed. I keep relating it to Nana, which is also built on a contract (so to speak) of emotional veracity, but is filled with the kind of people who don't have any trouble getting laid. Or maybe, rather than talking about "trouble", I should talk about "standards". XDD Though I do believe there are two fundamental types in the world: people whose romantic drama is mostly characterized by what happens, and people whose romantic drama is mostly characterized by what doesn't happen (which is not to say the drama doesn't exist, far from it). Nana is all about the former, Hachikuro is all about the latter. In the end it asks the question I never think to ask, namely Is it worth it? But then I always answer Yes.
I identified most with the episodes about creative drive, I think, and the conundrum of talent - more surprised that the series went there than anything else. Had a somewhat unsatisfactory discussion with T about it on the drive back. ^^; I was telling someone recently that insofar as I can emotionally relate to the idea of God at all, it's God as Creator - in the beginning there was the Word, that makes sense to me. The flipside to that is that I can't reconcile the fact of lack of talent, in the way it's touched on in the series. Is it crueller to assume that everyone is born with a gift that goes undiscovered for most, or that some are denied the light no matter how long and deeply they love? Then there's the opposite case, like Hagu. My reaction to the ending is mixed too - I was sort of shipping Morita/Hagu, except there's no way one could call it "shipping" because, I mean. Shiz is disastrous. XD; I would have a firmer position if I could parse the opportunity cost of Hagu's decision, but it's harder than it looks. Evidently she chooses the environment that would best allow her to grow as an artist, over... what? Romantic love? (O rly?) A meeting of sensibilities, genius sparking off genius? Growth as a person? In what sense? Hagu does open up throughout the series, and in some ways she's very strong, but in others she's... hapless. If Morita ever made her less hapless it would be through subsuming her, but I never get a stronger sense of regression off Hagu than when Morita does something to upset her and she goes running back to Shuuji for comfort. I can't put my finger on why it makes me sad. XD; Evidently Hagu knows what she wants, and what she values from her own life is what most of the world values about her anyway, so...
Probably the case conflicts with my own deep-seated neuroses. XD I find it impossible to rid myself of the idea that personal strength equals lack of fear, and that one grows by learning to need other people less. Or maybe it's just easier to identify with Morita himself, who can't throw it all away for the sake of his art. Even if I can't clearly state what Hagu's throwing away.
In comparison the Mayama-Rika-Ayu situation is easier to sympathize with, all around. XD
There's the music. It's not so much that the soundtrack is perfect for the series, so much as Umino Chika clearly wrote her story around the songs themselves, to give the emotions evoked by them somewhere to call home. I think this because I do it all the time. XD Sometimes a song is oneself, or someone one knows; failing that it could be associated with a character or a work of fiction. But as often as not one has to imagine the video treatment. I've always thought SPITZ was music that best expressed the sensation of biking on country roads through green fields and small towns; it's uncanny. XD
More props to Umino - IMO Hachimitsu and Clover are SPITZ's and Suga Shikao's best albums respectively (or were when the manga began serialization). They're both focussed, early efforts with snappy rhythms and relatively airy production, less with the compressed pop gloss and orchestral balladry. Not that I have a problem with balladry. XD
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no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 07:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 05:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 07:41 pm (UTC)it will always have a special place in my heart; im unhappy that it ended, but i think the ending was fantastic (ie i cried like a baby >_>;; and i was reading it on the train, too!). why it really resonates with me is because it's so heavily emotive and it never spells things out for you; it lets you draw your own conclusions.
btw because the series is so much about emotional confusion all around, i actually didn't ship anyone in this series, with the exception of maybe ayu and nomiya.
and spitz really is inaka music; i actually didnt even LIKE spitz until i lived in inaka (and, well, dated a big spitz fan who didnt speak any english, but that's neither here nor there XD;;;;)
no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 04:46 am (UTC)http://canis-m.livejournal.com/262174.html
http://canis-m.livejournal.com/262413.html
...I blabbed a lot about the end of S2, mostly for the wrong reasons. I enjoyed the series all along without relation to moe--unless the Spitz counts as moe--and thus wasn't expecting Umino to suddenly validate my secret pervy age-inappropriate pedagogical shipping practices. orz
Regarding Hagu's choice, I keep coming back to koi vs. ai (esp. ai that facilitates self-actualization) and Shuuji being a manifestation of the 1 Corinthians 13:1-13 ideal of love. According to my value system he's like, the highest form of life, so other considerations--even Hagu's motives--sort of fall by the wayside of my enthusiasm for him. ^^;
I never get a stronger sense of regression off Hagu than when Morita does something to upset her and she goes running back to Shuuji for comfort
Whereas I read it not as regressive but as a necessary lesson in developing awareness of where her emotional bread is buttered. XD; But again this is according to my value system...I suppose ultimately it's the same ai > koi principle that causes, say, "like a sister" Harry/Hermione to ping for me more than Harry/Ron. /tangent
no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 05:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-30 02:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-01 01:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-01 01:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 05:33 am (UTC)(Though if that were the case, and it's a recognizable emotional pattern, then I agree with Takemoto that it's a form of cowardice. He was right to handle things the way he did, but the statements aren't contradictory.)
I don't know if I can manage to parse the attachment as romantic, let alone sexual. XD But this is mostly just the fact of Hagu. I've known people to be annoyed by her character because she looks and acts like a little kid and they couldn't believe these guys would be all into her. Hagu doesn't bother me but I end up reading it all as variations on jun'ai. You get the feeling Takemoto's train of thought stopped at handholding and gazing into the beloved's eyes, and Morita's manifestations of interest were even more puerile than that, though his awareness is more sophisticated. Compared to the Rika-Mayama-Ayumi-Nomiya square which has sexual tension, sexual desire, and indeed sex.
I guess, to be honest, I just have this gut judgment that besides becoming an artist capable of doing the work she wants to do, Hagu's self-actualization ought to include items like not being miserable because you're incapable of having a basic conversation with a crush along the order of telling him you're going to powder your nose. ^^;; Shuuji will accept and love and validate her no matter what, but that's just it - it doesn't change a thing for him whether she goes forward or backward or stays the same. He'll support her going in whatever direction she wants, but he won't push her in any.
Though come to think of it, she totally gets over that at the end, with Morita. So chalk one up to Hagu.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 05:44 pm (UTC)I was theorising Harada. >_>
no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 08:29 pm (UTC)I don't know if I can manage to parse the attachment as romantic, let alone sexual.
I don't know if I do, either! Likewise I'm not sure Shuuji -> Harada was sexual. Certainly Shuuji/Rika was not very sexual even if they had grief-stricken comfort sex. ^^;;;;;; According to evidence presented, as grown men go, Shuuji isn't a very sexual being. But for me the Hanamoto/Hanamoto doesn't register as strictly familial, or strictly jun'ai--it's more visceral than that, see exhibit A: wrist-chewing (that bit really blew me away). Almost an animal intimacy. ^^; It sort of defies categorization--therein lies the appeal, maybe.
He'll support her going in whatever direction she wants, but he won't push her in any.
Rather than pushing he extends a hand, which imo is as it should be. But I think it does matter to him whether she goes "backwards" or "forwards"--if it didn't, then wouldn't he give an answer more like Morita's? "It's OK to give up art," "You'll still be a worthwhile person," "I'll love you no matter what"? Which he will do, but it does matter to him whether she self-actualizes. Maybe you're right and Hagu's failing is that she doesn't strive to become an independent person--maybe she would've outgrown Shuuji if the accident hadn't happened--but now she's struggling with a disability on top of the burden of being a (female) genius arteest on top of a timid personality to begin with, so honestly it doesn't bother me if she never learns to make small talk with boys, or even to cook her own dinner. She has other fish to fry.
(Moar later, must go to class...)
no subject
Date: 2007-09-28 01:05 am (UTC)I think of that kind of "animal intimacy" as being familial - parent/child, say. Not that it stands in the way of my conceiving of Shuuji/Hagu as romance, it just makes it more complex to ponder (well, complexity is a positive in my book, fannishly speaking XD).
Actually, IMO it was important that Morita said that to her - or anyone, because it could have been Shuuji. I think part of what confused Hagu and what she struggled with was the outside pressure to perform as an artist, and the opposite choice had to be validated for her in order for her to be certain once and for all that that's not what she wants. (more, but I have to run XD;;)
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Date: 2007-09-28 04:10 am (UTC)Definitely it was important for Hagu to hear that said, even if Morita was saying it for the wrong reasons.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-28 05:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 05:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 05:54 am (UTC)I still rebel against the idea, though. XD Dunno, I'm probably overthinking the intent here. Or just that Umino believes in self-actualization through subsuming oneself in the other (see Mayama, also) and I... don't, really.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-28 01:05 am (UTC)So maybe Shuuji isn't the solution so much as one possible solution, if a solution is needed. But Takemoto had stumbled his way onto a path by series end, too, so doesn't he represent another option?
no subject
Date: 2007-09-28 04:54 am (UTC)One possible solution, yeah. And Ayu is kind of the sanest path in all this, in a totally understated way - she's not a universally acclaimed genius, but she does good, personally satisfying work in her chosen field that's appreciated by others, who're even willing to pay money for it. And... that's it. XD
no subject
Date: 2007-10-01 01:51 am (UTC)like walking through hypothermia and not lying down in the snow although it would be easier.
That's the perfect image. IIRC on the same discussion boards where most denizens had a violent gag reaction to Shuuji -> Hagu, there were a lot of posts to the effect of "Yay, Rika slept with Mayama, that means they're Together now and she let him into her heart <3 and everything's swell!" Way to miss what was going on there, folks. At least Mayama had enough of a clue to figure it out.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-27 06:44 pm (UTC)