The ensuing chunk of manga blather

[petronia]

I really am completely wiped. XD;; Seriously, I've stayed up til 5AM three nights running now, so I'm experiencing the mind-warping effects of JoJo itself through a filter of mind-warping sleep deprivation. Probably will not read any more for a few days as I've really got to finish this B*B story, plus I have to do my taxes this weekend. (OTOH, procrastination...)

I've also mysteriously caught a cold. There were no warning symptoms and it consists entirely of a runny nose, to the extent that I'd suspect hay fever if there were any greenery at all (there isn't - and it snowed yesterday ^^;). Not that I have a history of hay fever, but I do have a history of mysterious one-off allergy rashes, and mild congestive reactions against dust and dander. Also-also, managed to pull something in my right knee. >_>

A phenomenon that occurs specifically when you read a lengthy shounen manga that starts with butt-ugly art (and by you I mean me, I don't know how this is for other people): at some point around volume 8 or 9, it will click. Instead of trying to read 'around' the art it sort of goes transparent, roughly like when one gets caught up in the plot of a novel and stops noticing the author's style, though the subconscious effect continues. Then it's like you start seeing what the mangaka wants you to see, rather than waspishly pondering how the proportions are completely wack or whatever. XD The odd thing is this always happens around volume 8 or 9. I guess there's a rough correspondence between the amount of time it takes a mangaka to improve his art and stabilize it at some sort of stylistic plateau (if he's worth his salt - then again if it's a lengthy shounen manga he'd better be), and the amount of time it takes the reader to adjust eyes and brain accordingly. That is, if you showed it to someone out of the blue they'd probably still think it was fugly [1], but if you read it up to vol.8-9 you'd be like, "Hey, this is kind of nice."

I mean, Caesar really comes across as bishounen for a while there.

Then I was flattened by the thundering BARREL OF ANGST that was volume 10, not having expected it to come rolling down the metaphorical hill at me at all. Though given the end of Part 1 I should've been more wary of the mangaka. -_- After that I felt obliged to read to the denouement regardless of how long it took.

Caesar's backstory <-- *bitter weeping*
Lisa Lisa's backstory <-- *insert own MILF joke in poor taste*

By the end of the arc I was firmly in the dreaded mono no aware mode (otherwise known as "do not fic, you are taking this way too seriously"), but c'mon - 100 years have passed since the beginning of volume 1. And it's like there're only two kinds of characters in this series: the golden ones and the survivors who remember them.

Back to the art - I actually think Araki's style jibes perfectly with his story/characters (or maybe it's the other way around). It could just be lack of sleep but I TOTALLY bought volumes 11-12 as I was reading them, chariot racing and incomprehensible rope tricks and volcanic magma and naked Aztec vampire gods and all [2]. And part of it was well shit, that's what you would expect a chariot-racing naked Aztec vampire god to look like, zero irony and faffing about. They really are sort of beautiful in a Gilgameshian 'stronger than the wild bull of Ishtar' way, and it wouldn't fly if everyone was drawn à la CLAMP, in much the same way as the end of Rg Veda wouldn't fly if dark!Ashura weren't drawn as the perfect androgynous long-haired shoujo-manga bishounen. ...It seems kind of obvious put that way, but. XD

Um, what else... it should be superfluous to mention this but the art is really homoerotic. >_> That is, the series can be subtextually homoerotic in the standard WJump passionate male friendship/rivalry way, but the art is such that nineteen out of twenty homosexual men [3] who flip through a volume of this printed in a language they do not read will agree that whatever the hell it is, it's gay. I completely made that up to further my point. It's sort of like one of those collage portraits made out of tiny thumbnails of National Geographic covers, except it's a shounen manga made out of tiny little cut-up bits of gay porn.

And it reminds me so damned much of Anne Rice. orz




[1] Unless they're technician types who judge based on the level of inking/toning/framing skill etc. The background detail in JoJo was always nice if nothing else. XD What did Araki draw before he conceived his pet monster?

[2] The squirrel OTOH destroyed a few brain cells. It was 4AM, what can I say.

[3] Or really, anyone over the age of 15 who does not live under a rock.

Comments

[vonbrigthi.livejournal.com]

With regards to the art, I think in an interview somewhere, Araki mentions that he would be a fashion illustrator (designer? *horror*) if he wasn't doing Jojo-- I mean, comics. If you see all those little chapter page doodles, it's 80's era fashion illustration, and, well, Araki actually uses fashion photography for reference, I've found? (Dunno if you've seen the dancing!Jojo characters 4-page spread from the artbook, but it is Teh Ghei, and I've discovered it photoreferences an old fashion spread of people dancing (badly).) So that might account for some of the crazy poses and rampant homoeroticism.

Ah, wait till later volumes as his art gets... "prettier".

orz is about right.

[petronia.livejournal.com]

Actually, when I look at random colour art I tend to think his fashion design sense is great! :x I mean, in that flamboyant Versace/Westwood pret-a-porter way where normal people wouldn't actually go outside wearing the entire outfit, they'd buy one piece and wear it with a standard t-shirt or jeans or whatever. ...And his boys wear clothes with decolletes and things that only girls would wear in the Real World and it's not considered crossdressing, but okay with me.

[vonbrigthi.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, I think his designs (fashion and otherwise) are great? But yeah, definately the type of thing you'd see on well.. models. Or crazy Aztec gods. Wait till you see Vanilla Ice (& Cream). :x

Actually I should dig up that teeshirt design he did, it's very cool, or the Alex Rider Japanese version covers. His colour work reminds me a lot of uh, Ayumi Kasai/the psychedelic popart movement. Very bright, almost clashing colours, but they work.

[angrybabble.livejournal.com]

the jojo a gogo dancing photorefs a real dancing photo spread? :O do you know where I could find that? I'd love to see it! O_O

[vonbrigthi.livejournal.com]

Ahh, it was posted in the foto_decadent community. Let me see if I can dig it up; if I can't, I can upload it, because I just had to save it. XD

Ah crap, I totally can't find it for some reason. Anyways, iirc, this was some kind of magazine spread from the 80s or something. Or early 90s. I uh. Cry. My memory is going, okay. Why didn't I bookmark it...?

Here they are. (http://www.drawingblank.com/jojo/) Sorry they're kind of huge and uh. Yeah. *lazes*

[angrybabble.livejournal.com]

holy crap! O_O

[applekid.livejournal.com]

I'm finding your commentary on JoJo very interesting; I've been thinking about checking it out for ages (ever since I found it serialized in some ancient imported Jumps or something when I was a kid) simply because the art style has always fascinated me, fugly though it is. I'm definitely more interested now that you mention the visual homoeroticism.

Is there any way to read it in english, do you know? It doesn't strike me as the sort of thing that would be picked up by Tokyopop, though I haven't checked...

[vonbrigthi.livejournal.com]

It's currently being published by Viz, though they started at Series 3 (out of the current 7 in Japan). Series 3 stars Joseph's grandson, Jotaro Kujo, though Joseph is also part of the gang. Uh. And all the other family lines. XD

[applekid.livejournal.com]

Really! That's good I guess? ...I'm kind of disappointed that they didn't start at the beginning, but maybe I ought to pick them up anyway. In your opinion, is reading the first two series paramount to enjoyment of the whole thing?

[petronia.livejournal.com]

I have a suspicion they didn't start at the beginning because no one wanted to have to apologize for semi-sympathetic Nazis and characters named after famous rock musicians. XD

[angrybabble.livejournal.com]

Here (http://www.swapmeep.net/misc/Jojo%20Part%201%20and%202.zip), parts 1 and 2 in english. I request only that you tell me what you think in an ongoing manner like Sabina, so that I can laugh. XD

dude, sabina, I think it's not just a function of "getting used to" the art style... I personally find I really like the way part 2 looks (in a weird way it may be one of my fav arcs for story AND art). Oh, and yes, Araki LOVES FASHION. XD The characters in Part 6 are named after things like Versace and Wrangler and Hermes and Guess and Gucci and D&G and Anna Sui. XD (Poor Annasui is actually a guy. A really pretty guy. A really pretty sociopathic murderer in love with Jojo guy. >_>) Uh, but anyhow, I don't think the art past the first few books of part 1 is THAT bad if we ignore issues of perspective and strange anatomy... then again we've all started to like it so much that we've bought like $100 worth of artbooks so yeah. (The horrors of high fashion also stopped hurting me after a while... I used to think the jojo fashion was SO BAD but now I find I actually love how freaky it looks and how everyone's wearing makeup and has strange hair and inexplicable headwear. XD For example Abbaccio's kappa hat doesn't really bother me like it should, and I have started to find Annasui's mesh pants, miniskirt, and manties positively charming. >_>;)

[applekid.livejournal.com]

OH! So this is the bit that Viz hasn't done, that's wonderful!! And I shall let you know what I think for sure, though I'm not nearly as eloquent as petronia.

Though the second part of your comment isn't addressed to me, I actually really appreciate the anatomy in the artwork I've seen. I mean, it's one thing to be correct, it's another thing to warp anatomy in a way that is so... well, stylish, I suppose. I quite like it, especially for it's weirdness.

[angrybabble.livejournal.com]

Well, I know what you mean re: charmingly warped bad art... I mean it's not the art itself that's bad, just the perspective/anatomy by itself, if you can somehow separate the two? For example, this (http://www.swapmeep.net/misc/jotaro_perspective_s.jpg) pic has some REALLY BAD perspective AND anatomy (people's legs DO NOT BEND like that, even if they WOULD look that way from that angle WHICH THEY WOULD NOT), and yet I actually am quite fond of this picture for some reason. I think it's because when real anatomy and perspective elude him, he doesn't exactly do a BAD job... it's more like he switches to drawing some abstract world that just doesn't have the same art rules as this one. ...Does that make sense?

I don't require eloquence, btw... stop by my blog and you'll see it runneth over with swear words, run-on sentences, emoticons, etc. Oh, to have the mind of an intellectual! Kurses!! XD

[vonbrigthi.livejournal.com]

Heh, Gyro's green lipstick, anyone? :D

Yeah, I think the thing with Araki's art is... you know, it's not really that he can't draw or doesn't know his anatomy -- he DOES, but he knows it so well and is confident enough in his anatomy, and is a very, very good designer, so he can feel free to exaggerate features and _have it all work_. It's like uh, the whatchacall, the mannerism style? Um.

I like how you can tell what Araki was into with each series through the names of characters and stands. XD

[petronia.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was going to say too - it's Mannerist! (Complete with the colour schemes of the original Mannerists who dressed Jesus in lime-and-hot-pink drapes etc.)

So far classic FM rock, and then he obviously hit a hip-hop/Miami freestyle/funk/disco period. >_>

[petronia.livejournal.com]

I can tell he loves fashion, I pay way too much attention to that in manga. XD Like that scene where Lisa Lisa is about to take a bath and she's wearing a 80's-style patterned dress - I mean, it's basically a sundress, but it's a really nice one that drapes like bias-cut silk.

I can actually make a list of mangaka who have a coherent fashion sense (even if it's not my fashion sense) versus mangaka who draw "costumes" and/or generic clothing - like Ayamine-sensei who's clueless, much as I love GB and all. XD As for JoJo fashion I'm probably just numbed by the clothes I see on people at hipster raves. XD;;

Anyway Squit or someone used to say that if you were going to put fishnets and miniskirts and lipstick on a man don't be wishy-washy about it, put them on a manly man. Which is one guiding aesthetic to be sure.

[squidlet.livejournal.com]

See? I'm creepy that way. And yes, it was me.

Figures if you wanna push the envelope you might as well rip it wide open and use it as confetti.

[petronia.livejournal.com]

Actually I think in the case of... crossdressing androgynous men?... or the attraction thereof (to "fandom"), the crossdressing only exists to enhance the androgyny. And in that sense it's sort of unsubtle. It's more disturbing if you have a fairly realistically drawn character wearing a turtleneck and slacks combo, and you still can't tell what gender they are.

That is, if you crossdress a manly man the expectation you subvert is the social construct of masculinity and implications, versus femininity. If you crossdress a girly boy the expectation you subvert is that of biological sex being dichotomous - at least visually. It's not pushing the envelope in the same direction.

JoJo would definitely fall in the former category except... I'm really going to have to think more about WTH is going on there.

[squidlet.livejournal.com]

Well, I figure if the character was truly androgynous, there'd be no uh, fun in dressing up as a man's man or a woman's woman. Their androgyny would be highlighted even in a potato sack.

I mean, even in the most androgynous character (I'm thinking real life and not, say, CLAMP) there are /some/ cues. Muscle proportion. Adam's apple, hips. The walk. The smell (this I think occurs, only we don't notice consciously)

I think people notice these things as a matter of point. I mean, there's nothing more obvious than height or gender. You take these details in within the first eyeblink, and that governs how you react, for better or worse. If your sex is not obvious at first glance, it doesn't matter what you're wearing, it's going to be disturbing to people (not in the negative sense always) and they are probably going to look twice to ascertain gender.

I think there's a difference also, between true androgyny and boys who look like girls. That's not androgyny, that's uh, cosmic unfairness XD. But seriously, to discuss that needs a post of its own.

[petronia.livejournal.com]

I meant from the POV of... the fan? XD The author is more like it. That is, the attraction is that here is someone who looks entirely like a girl but is actually a boy, and the fact that he may be in girl's clothes is part of the "looking entirely like". Which, you're right, is not the same as true-neutral androgyny.

Alternately, the fact that the boy physically looks like a flat-chested girl is in and of itself a form of travesty/crossdressing. It's still a boy "dressed" as a girl; a boy "drawn" as a girl.

I wrote a whole bunch of stuff here that made no sense but what it comes down to is the position of one's personal switch, when the balance/fantasy starts working. I usually need, as you put it, some visual clues given as to the true gender (and out of the two choices I prefer girl-in-male-travesty). Sometimes it stretches to characters like Kazuki in GB who're at least very masculine in personality, as I see it.

It just seems to me that if you put female clothes on a character who's undeniably visually male (or mixing it up with signifiers - crewcut + muscles + lipstick, etc.) it becomes interesting in a way that's almost perpendicular to the above. Because you're not trying to "pass him off".

Eh, I'm not sure where I'm going with this. XD Possibly I'm just trying to talk away my trauma that Araki draws lithe, buff young men who sometimes dress like Vegas pole dancers - female ones.

[squidlet.livejournal.com]

I get the feeling that this is getting a little too deep for me. But I struggle to blather on!

Basically I'm thinking, if boy physically looks like a girl, there's no fun in dressing him in girl-clothes. I think for me the main point of contention is the mindfuck value.

Kazuki scares me, mostly because he has everyone finding him attractive. I can understand that he's pretty, but WTF? Mostly I hated the Toshiki business.

[angrybabble.livejournal.com]

whaaaa comment mysteriously freaked out... @_@ anyhow, in part 6 araki must have realized how gay part 5 was and tried to fix it by making part 6 about a female jojo and her female friends. Annasui actually first appears with boobies and as, you know, a girl. But then Araki apparently realized that he hadn't stopped it being homosexual, now it's just full of lesbians instead of fags! He needed some guys in this women's prison, STAT! But apparently he liked Annasui's general chara design too much to never draw the character again so he just converted her to a guy and pretended that one panel of girl-annasui never existed. XD

(there's actually a canonical plot nonsense thing where women are turned into men with drugs, but that is not the explanation for annasui; his backstory has him always being a guy. we figure the girls-into-guys thing mainly happened because Araki couldn't bring himself to draw more than 3-4 pages without the naked male body appearing someplace.) Anyhow Mr Sui does get pretty buff and manly, even in his mesh outfit with miniskirt, manties, and lipstick. XD I mean with a few notable exceptions Jojo is a manga all about men who are, you know, 6 feet tall and full of muscles, to quote Men At Work. XD

Oh, re: angst, well... uh... how shall I put this? I would be careful about getting to attached to any Jojo character. XD;;;; (I have a bad habit of LOVING THEM ALL and then I feel horrible later EVEN WHEN I KNOW IT IS COMING!)

Have you started part 3 yet? Joseph's back as Sean Connery, and he is an old dork who keeps stealing scenes from poor Jotaro because he's still a spastic freak and Jotaro is a poker-faced badass who's usually so mellow you have to check to make sure he's breathing. Joseph's seriously exactly like you'd expect old Joseph to be (which is to say: still retarded, just older. XD)

[petronia.livejournal.com]

(quickly before I go to bed) Oh no, I've learnt my lesson re: angst. XD Once is chance, twice is coincidence, but three times and up is enemy action.

I haven't started part 3, I spent my internet allotment tonight on the fanart of you peeps. I'm impressed by your dedication. :P

One day when I'm more awake I'll write a whole long ridiculous meta piece referring back to what Squit said - dressing manly men up in fishnet and lipstick, androgyny threshhold, blurring versus mirroring, etc. ...But I'm not awake now.

[jokersama.livejournal.com]

You know, the rule for JoJo basically is, "If Puu really, really likes that character, THEY WILL DIE."

Seriously, it has YET TO FAIL. You can use me as a radar for it.

[angrybabble.livejournal.com]

are you saying you don't like Cars' hand-squirrel?!?! BUT WHY



Well, enjoy this excerpt from the joekaki anyhow >D (drawn by the fantastic nangke.

[petronia.livejournal.com]

......

See, I wonder about Cars. It's obvious that he has some sort of deep quasi-religious respect for all lifeforms on Earth except humans who are just food, but it's not justified or reconciled in any way with his evil megalomaniac treachery. :0

Really I just had the same reaction to the squirrel as the characters did. (*in rising tone of barely controlled hysteria* "It's sort of... cute, isn't it? Ahahahahaha. Ha.")