Spot of Monday-morning analysis

[petronia]

Two more pairing essays to go: TezuFuji and... Charmian, what I make of this is that you want to know about my Atobe pairings, right? ^^;

Third time in a week someone's asked me about quote unbalanced relationships unquote. Thus I take a moment out to talk about it. ...By observation I think this is a matter of the reader's self intersecting with the text. Tania, for instance, absolutely adores Yuki x Shuuichi because she identifies with Shuuichi the sparkly fluffy silly uncritical unthinking rushes-off-in-all-directions uke who gets his guy through application of sheer dumb determination and genkilove. Said guy being cool and urbane and manly and in control and all that. (This is not at all how I see Yuki but it's how Tania sees Yuki; I don't know if it's how Yuki is meant to be seen.) I find this horrific, both the identifying-with-Shindou-Shuuichi part and the sparkling-over-assholes-because-they're-kewl-and-controlling part, but it's what pushes her buttons as a fantasy. Sure enough when T draws up her own original BL manga (she does this) they are full of wide-eyed fluffy utterly-useless ukes of the kind one finds in 50% of the stuff that's out there, and that doesn't do it for me at all. However, given that it's 50% of what's out there, I have to conclude that T is with the majority and I am not. It wouldn't be the first time.

Moving on. Then you have what I call Kristin-pairings eheh: Gingetsu x Ran, GyouTai, SanaYuki and (prevalent fannish interpretation diverging from my own, but let's go with fanon for the moment) HijiOki and JuuKazu. SanaYuki is the most immediately obvious example of why I don't even see these as unbalanced pairings: how is it not obvious that the person who holds the upper hand in the relationship is not at all the person who tops in bed or looks/acts more intimidating? All that's irrelevant. The person who holds the upper hand is the person who's better at dealing with his emotions, just like in real life.[1] It's the person to whom love is most solid. I grok the semes much more in these; I attribute to them the same bewildered attraction I would feel, faced with someone who plays by a whole other rulebook from the one to which I'm used. In fact, I think it's why they're always the seme. IMO all the physical strength and age and leadership skill0rz and, I dunno, intelligence? earning power? just about make up for the power imbalance of affairs-of-the-heart being the uke's playing field. (Also applies to a number of pairings that aren't really Kristin-pairings, such as Ban x Ginji or even Crawford x Schuldich. Although with the latter it's more like barely premeditated acts of insanity are Schuldich's playing field, and any putative relationship between the two certainly qualifies as one from Crawford's POV.)

An important consideration that ensues from the above, given how many of these pairings are edged with tragedy: characters like Okita and Ran are better at coping with the inevitable. It's the characters like Gingetsu and Hijikata who're going to be completely shipwrecked.

Somewhat relatedly, I resonate rather embarrassingly to the adoption-of-small-fuzzy-thing-found-on-street trope that sometimes comes up (Reiji x Naoya, Gingetsu x Ran), once again from the seme POV. That is unbalanced. Or perhaps not as unbalanced as it looks; I've never met a cat owner who wasn't completely whipped by his/her pet (insofar as I'm concerned, if you allow something to mark you as territory by getting its hair/scent all over you and walk out the door like that, you're pwnz0red). It's also a fairly new development in my readerly reaction. A couple of years old at best, corresponding to my getting a real job, which is indicative. I'm not financially independant enough that I could keep a real cat in wet catfood let alone support a human being offhand, but I can imagine it, which when I was in college I simply couldn't. Apparently part of me thinks like the kind of guy who likes it if his marriage partner doesn't work a day job. ^^; (Memory says Aoe Kiichi says something in the manga that pins it down quite well, but fails to provide the actual quote.)

By virtue of elimination, then, the people who are most bothered by a perceived lack of power balance should be the ones who go for crabby ukes and/or sasoi ukes and/or outright manipulative ukes, where all of the above goes to make up for the "inherent disadvantage" of their uke-ness. I used to; still kind of do. But as I get older I get more seme (?!?!?), or maybe I've stopped seeing uke-ness stereotypical femininity, let's stop mincing words - as an inherent disadvantage, for the reasons given in the second paragraph. Oh, that and the people who're primarily into guy buddies + sex pairings like Wolfwood x Vash or a lot of sports manga BL or what you have in Saiyuki, where the playing field is completely equalized from the start and thus sidesteps the feminine-principle issue altogether. Which... I do too! I guess the point of this essay is I Like Everything.

...Except the stories in which the seme is cruel and unfeeling and the uke is all weepy and spineless and obsessed with Whether He Loves Me. There's unbalance for you, and it annoys me to bits (except it also obviously pushes a lot of people's buttons because it comprises another 40% of what's out there). Thank Yamane that Asami x Takaba isn't like that. Takaba strikes back! He's never more than half-successful but the show of defiance is critical in sustaining my interest.[2] Also Asami is not so much unfeeling as he has a really warped value system. But uh, whole 'nother essay.

[1] Taiki isn't, to begin with, and the peripateia of GyouTai pretty much has to do with that - at least until one starts hitting COUPS D'ETAT okay I'm okay I'm calm.

[2] People start edging away when I say this on MSN. Worry not, I find it sufficiently disturbing that Asami's feelings make sense to me thx.

Unrelated #1: you know you're not getting enough vegetables when you start craving things like spinach and Greek salad for breakfast. Now someone talk me out of drinking the super-acidic tomato-cucumber juice/balsamic vinegar liquid left in the bottom of the takeout container.

Unrelated #2: someone also talk me out of 1) compiling a mix by matching a song to each of the 30_kisses topics, 2) signing up for Draco/Fuji and 3) writing thirty drabbles about Draco and Fuji skipping class to sit around in the latter's cramped McGill Ghetto one-and-half listening to the record I chose for said topic while cleverly working kisses in there somehow. (I haven't because it's very obviously one of those projects whose awesomeness is in no way matched by my ability to see it to actual fruition.)

Comments

[worldserpent.livejournal.com]

Yep, unless you want to do Niou x Yagyuu (or vice versa).

Said guy being cool and urbane and manly and in control and all that.

You know, having read more of Gravitation, I think this is NOT at all how we're supposed to view Yuki and it's not just you. Touma, more like. I find Shuuichi less annoying than he was in the anime and actually like him in the manga. From the manga it looks like Yuki is the one who's causing all the drama (not that he doesn't have good reason to be disturbed with his past, but he comes off as the unreasonable one).

As for Yukimura, I still suspect that he is secretly frightening in a manner similar to Fuji. >_> Plus he is, you know, captain and all.

[astrael-nyx.livejournal.com]

I shan't try to persuade you out of writing those thirty drabbles as I'm interested to see which street you think Fuji will live on and just how cramped his 1 1/2 is.

With that "unbalanced relationship" essay, you've articulated almost everything I've ever wanted to say about BL and more, especially on Asami and Takaba.

[petronia.livejournal.com]

I think the leaving-the-house-with-cat-hair-all-over bit was subconsciously inspired by that Reiji x Naoya thing you posted. ^^;

Actually I had a specific 1 1/2 in mind, I just have to remember where it was.

[canis-m.livejournal.com]

Filed under my name ahaha ha ha *is ded*

Instead of writing Fuji/Draco, you could expound on how your HijiOki differs from conventional fanon HijiOki (come on you did it for JuuKazu) or at least identify what conventional fanon HijiOki is. Or did you do that somewhere else and I missed it?

p.s. Housecat metaphor IS TRUTH.

[one-if-by-land.livejournal.com]

*purposely doesn't talk you out of anything*

[fable.livejournal.com]

Moving on. Then you have what I call Kristin-pairings eheh: Gingetsu x Ran, GyouTai, SanaYuki and (prevalent fannish interpretation diverging from my own, but let's go with fanon for the moment) HijiOki and JuuKazu.

Umm. Why would anyone think SanaYuki was unbalanced in Sanada's favor, unless they were just going on appearance alone (Sanada is bigger than Yukimura therefore if they were placed on a scale the scale would tilt towards Sanada's side and there you go! unbalanced!). Yukimura has both the emotional and - exterior? - upper-hand (he's the captain of the team, the one the other team members look up to, and by extension probably the better player), so if it was in any way unbalanced, you'd think it would be unbalanced in Yukimura's favor? (And yes, I realize, preaching to the choir and all that.) I think that Hijitaka/Okita is unbalanced too, though not as much as SanaYuki, because here Hijitaka does have the exterior control.

Unbalanced relationships do bother me, but I suspect that I have a different definition of that than most of fandom, and it doesn't really matter who's the uke or seme to me - that is, I don't think being a uke carries with it an inherent disadvantage? I'm more interested in who's in control of the situation, which is why I think that Asami/Takaba is a completely unbalanced relationship, because Asami is always in control, and Asami/Feilong less so, because Asami isn't. And I don't, um, really go for the spunky energizer-battery ukes like Takaba? I think for the same reason that you do. ^^;; Yeah, they keep on trying to strike back, but they do it so ineffectually, like contrary, neutered pets. Though, umm. I do like Gingetsu/Ran a lot? And tend to see that relationship as equal leaning towards unbalanced in Ran's favor, so. *shrugs*

(Also, the examples you gave of most yaoi manga I try to stay away from - they don't even enter the equation for me. ^^;; )

Your unrelated #2. *blinks* You never do things halfway, do you? Does this mean you decided to go with option #2 of the three options I gave you for the fic? XDD

[petronia.livejournal.com]

Well, I did say SanaYuki was the obvious example. XD

Who's in control of the situation, yes; but that is the seme/uke issue, because Viewfinder = BBC manga and Asami = uberseme. ^^; I don't think Takaba is ineffectual. Totting up plot points on my fingers, he accomplishes what he's trying to accomplish about 50% of the time, which is a pretty decent track record when the other side has all the goons and guns. (Asami ends up molesting him 100% of the time, but Takaba's goals don't consist of not getting molested by Asami, if that makes sense. If they were he would stick to wedding photography and never go near a police tip or for that matter Shinjuku ever again.)

In fact, it's likely I'm wrongheaded in this but I have an instinctive tendency to regard Viewfinder as a yakuza/triad proto-movie with an unusual focus on ghei sex rather than as a mildly plotty BL narrative. ^^;;; So even though Asami is in control (and comes across as more in control of events than he actually is), I can't help seeing it all as a dangerous high-wire act. He's had to shoot his way in/out of a building twice because of Takaba already, and that's without getting into the Feilong backstory. Not to mention it's made explicit that Takaba is being slotted kicking and screaming into the "mistress" role in Asami's paradigm of the criminal underworld, and you know what happens to girls like that in movies - they are played by Cecilia Cheung get brutally murdered so the main character can go for an extended revenge quest rampage in the last act. ^^; No wonder Takaba wants no part of it.

No, I don't do things halfway. Why do you think I was all >:E at you? I'm one of those people who either don't clean the house or spend seven hours scrubbing between the bathroom tiles with a toothbrush.

[fable.livejournal.com]

(Asami ends up molesting him 100% of the time, but Takaba's goals don't consist of not getting molested by Asami, if that makes sense. If they were he would stick to wedding photography and never go near a police tip or for that matter Shinjuku ever again.)

Yes, it does make sense. But, um, that's one of the reasons I tend to think he's not in control? 's obvious to the reader that he wants Asami, yet he keeps on denying it - says he ended up in the situation not because he went there, but because Asami forced him to. And it's like - dude, if you can't even figure out yourself, how are you ever going to figure out anything else? And that's why I think, when it comes to eq, he's much lower than Asami, because Asami seems to have a pretty good idea of what he wants, and doesn't hesitate to get it, in part because he's also very good at figuring out what others want and manipulating them.


No, I don't do things halfway. Why do you think I was all >:E at you? I'm one of those people who either don't clean the house or spend seven hours scrubbing between the bathroom tiles with a toothbrush.

XDDDDDDDDDD

I can't wait to see what you come up with for this.

[petronia.livejournal.com]

But if everyone knew what they wanted and how to go about getting it there would be no story!? *weeps* Why is a TezuFuji fic in which Tezuka is clueless and Fuji alternately besotted and malicious not unbalanced then? I'm forced to conclude that it's because Fuji is uke in that scenario (broad sense) and thus cannot "make" Tezuka give him what he wants.

Okay, okay, look, to return to the original question (yours, anyway, Squit was asking about something else) and sum up: people like to read about unbalanced relationships because they get off on the unequality, whether in an utter-fantasy way or a direct-to-RL way, whether they identify more with the protected/controlled partner or the protective/controlling one. Strong handsome heroic prince sweeps off starry-eyed princess - it's manga, doesn't need to be politically correct or advanced in feminist consciousness. Other people don't like to read about unbalanced relationships because it wigs them out, or because it makes one of the two characters less interesting. Either that or what looks unbalanced to you doesn't look unbalanced to the next person and vice versa, which probably depends on the type of push-and-pull you're naturally willing to tolerate in a relationship.

Actually there's another way in which people get off on the portrayal of unequal relationships which I think is underestimated: Like Sims To Bored Gamers Are We To The Gods. It's fun to watch the uke screw up and get screwed (mostly it's the uke, anyway - actually, in a manga like Viewfinder the reason Takaba can't win is because the mangaka designated him uke, not the other way around. It's almost like a constant factor you can drop from the equation). It's like watching a Roadrunner cartoon: the outcome isn't in doubt, the entertainment is in seeing how it's arrived at... When T reads Viewfinder she's like, "Aw, poor Takaba, he tries so hard but he just can't win. *hearts, pats on the head, gives star for effort*"

Even Mirage of Blaze is sometimes morbidly entertaining along these lines. Aw, Naoe, he tries so hard but he just can't win.

[worldserpent.livejournal.com]

I'm currently discussing something like this about romance novels, how they also have relationships that are unequal, although often not as jarringly as they are in BL/shoujo manga. I think part of it is the "marrying up" phenomenon: many people fantasize about a partner who is "unattainable' or "waaay above them," and this produces inequality. Also agreed that these fantasies are, like fantasy rape, incest, and whatever is on fanficrants today, largely impervious to all analysis, criticism, or ranting by offended parties who wish to do some consciousness-raising.

[petronia.livejournal.com]

Marrying up: yeah, that's probably a lot of it. (Think I have more to say but must run. XD)

[fable.livejournal.com]

Why is a TezuFuji fic in which Tezuka is clueless and Fuji alternately besotted and malicious not unbalanced then?

Oooh. If Tezuka cares about Fuji, then it is unbalanced, in my view? (Told you my definition of this was different than most of fandom's. ^^)

[petronia.livejournal.com]

No no, if Tezuka cares about Fuji equally than I think most people would agree that it's somewhat unbalanced, because Fuji is better at the whole two people dating thing. *g* (Whether it's unpleasantly unbalanced is a separate issue. Also, if your definition of unbalanced relationship really is different from the rest of fandom, then the question isn't why tRoF likes unbalanced relationships; the question is why you see certain things as unbalanced while tRoF doesn't.) My question is more, what about a story in which Tezuka really was oblivious to the extent of his own caring, or just constitutionally better at putting romantic considerations on the back burner? I mean, here's the type of guy who really would say, I'm going to tennis school in Florida for two years, see you on the pro circuit... sometime. And the story would be of how Fuji gets around or goes along with that. I think it's a familiar template, and it's always struck me as unbalanced unless you make Fuji very centred and competent, because I don't see any proof there that Tezuka doesn't care less than Fuji, period.

Also, what do you think of Yamane Ayano's other stories?

[fable.livejournal.com]

Also, if your definition of unbalanced relationship really is different from the rest of fandom, then the question isn't why tRoF likes unbalanced relationships

umm. That was never a question, I don't think? Or at least, not mine? ^^; I didn't have a question, actually, aside from Sanada/Yukimura buh? - I just commented because you said that people who are most bothered by a perceived lack of power balance should be the ones that go for crabby ukes etc etc, and I don't think that's always the case. And the relationship I described above is what interests me the most - my ideal, if you can use that word in this context - not the sum total of all I like. ^^ I'm quite clear on how it does and doesn't intersect with the rest of fandom's definition? There are also other relationships that interest me, the ones I view as slightly imbalanced and others probably view as balanced. (However, going back to what you said before, I don't think that Asami/Takaba is one of them - I think most people would say that the relationship there was unbalanced? I understand what you're saying about the reason Takaba can't win being that he's the uke and that by definition means that he can't win, and that considering the restraints of the genre Takaba is several levels above your typical weepy uke, but I disagree with that being a constant you can drop from the equation, because I don't think things are judged only as relative to themselves - i.e. if a room is painted in different shades of pink, and there is one shade that is paler than the others, people don't usually say - oh look! that part of the wall is white! - because it's still pink, it's just a pink that has more white mixed in than its surroundings. So, yeah, Ayano stretches the traditional yaoi/mafia story formula, but not enough to break it - she still follows it, and that formula is one for what most would see as an unbalanced relationship, no? Of course, there's a pretty quick way we could answer this question - poll others. ^^)

And also, I'm quite clear on why people go for what I term extremely unbalanced relationships? (Though your explanation is much more coherent than mine would've been. ^^) If I was to question anything, it would be why the majority of people seem to go for it (witness the profusion of weepy uke manga), because the way things stand it's very hard for me to find something I'd enjoy reading, and it really does all come back to me in the end. :b


My question is more, what about a story in which Tezuka really was oblivious to the extent of his own caring, or just constitutionally better at putting romantic considerations on the back burner?

Ooh, I agree with you - it would be unbalanced then? Because even though they might care for each other the same way, Fuji wants to invest more into the relationship than Tezuka is willing to, so if there was a relationship it would consist of Fuji giving and Tezuka standing there like the good pillar he is. Either that or the Eroica set-up, which, needless to say, I didn't enjoy very much. ^^;

Hmm. So maybe I should revise what I said before, then. I view a balanced relationship as one in which both parties are invested (to the same degree inasmuch as such things can be judged, or with the same uncertainty of feeling on both sides), and both parties are able to hurt each other. I like the uncertainty of it, of not knowing who holds the upper hand, so that anything can happen, and I prefer it if the characters are similarly uncertain about the other, because I like seeing how that uncertainty plays out, how they deal with it. It makes the relationship more precarious and dangerous, and keeps me from falling asleep halfway through, because I have a ridiculously short attention-span at times.


Also, what do you think of Yamane Ayano's other stories?

Didn't like them? ^^; Not sure if I like viewfinder either, actually - I like the setup more for where it could go than where it's likely to go.

[serendip.livejournal.com]

Draco/Fuji? XD

[petronia.livejournal.com]

*baits Jae* It's kind of a long story as to how that happened. ^^;

[serendip.livejournal.com]

I have no idea what Fuji is like. Actually, I didn't realise that there were Fuji brothers and got confused when someone told me that Fuji shippage was incest. Ha! XD Am sure whatever you plotted, Malfoy deserves thousandfold XDXDXDXD

[squidlet.livejournal.com]

I forgot to reply to your reply to my reply (geez), because I closed the browser while thinking about it.

Something like this: Gingetsu/Lan is not unbalanced to me because Lan is perceived as smaller/weaker; he's more powerful anyway. It's that their roles are so defined, that's why it's unbalanced.

By virtue of elimination, then, the people who are most bothered by a perceived lack of power balance should be the ones who go for crabby ukes and/or sasoi ukes and/or outright manipulative ukes, where all of the above goes to make up for the "inherent disadvantage" of their uke-ness.

Basically, for a pairing like Gingetsu/Lan (Or even Trowa/Quatre) the thing that really makes me uncomfortable is how one member holds the emotional reins of the relationship. Most of it, anyway. So scary! At least with a slightly unbalanced uke, you know that the power dynamics is more fluid.

I think what's important is not really financial earning power or physical size or anything. It is a romantic relationship, after all, emotions (the mushy kind I'm allergic to dissecting) are the most important factor. In that Gingetsu/Lan is completely unbalanced to me, because I think Lan commands too much power, as it were. I can't stop wondering, what happens if one day Lan walks out (not very possible, but) or does something that Gingetsu doesn't approve of, and Gingetsu can't say a thing because he's too scared of hurting Lan/driving him away?

I acknowledge that most of it is my own neuroses about relationships between people. I'm terrified of small fuzzy things that want me to adopt them (otherwise known as dependents): children and needy/clingy/affectionate people, it takes me a lot of time to get used to them. -> Nothing like Gingetsu/Lan, but.

Cats are nothing like that, they're more like "Hey, if you want to pamper me, why the hell not?"

VxW, BanxGinji, InuixKaidoh man, I love it precisely because of the emotional power distribution. It's not that the more powerful/l33t person in the pairing isn't obvious, because it is, but when it comes to matters of the heart both are equally stupid. XD

[petronia.livejournal.com]

Ah, the other way around then. I grok, being as I'm also terrified of clingy (here defined as "you seem to like me more than I am sure I like you"). I suppose it's a matter of degree. ^^; Physical dependency doesn't make me recoil but emotional demands do. The two often come together but not always, and hence Gingetsu x Ran. My instinct is to say that Ran wouldn't walk away from Gingetsu no matter what: he's just not the sort of person who would. This isn't true of everyone who's ever held the emotional upper hand in a relationship obviously. But Ran wouldn't. He's of a species that mates for life. I kind of hope Gingetsu knows it as well and behaves accordingly. Though I am making it out more to be a question of character judgment than a question of blind loving trust, just as I do in real life. XD;;

That being said I'm obviously much more into the Ban x Ginji sort of pairing. ^^; And don't kill me because I am all too painfully aware of what a time-eater said meme has become, but I have just wandered over to your lj to ask you to ramble about Inui x Kaidoh.