Putting it here so I'll remember to make the idea go somewhere

[petronia]

Somewhat related to the taste discussion. People say they get annoyed at fics/authors that are recced widely and otherwise admired, but turn out to be mediocre. This is an attitude that is widespread but mysterious to me. After some thought/discussion I came to the conclusion that it is because I have little to no trust in other people's recs. I assume that most people not of my immediate social circle will like primarily things that I consider bad, mediocre, or boring (i.e. "good" but not to my taste), an assumption that is borne out completely in practice. Furthermore, I assume everything is bad until proven otherwise. Thirdly, when it comes to fic I often enjoy the mediocre immensely, without the illusion that it could ever make the Booker shortlist. So I'm rarely unpleasantly surprised, and on occasion pleasantly. XD

(There are very few people, in fandom or out, whose recs I follow without reservation - or even with a reasonable degree of reservation; I will not list them. XD My personal taste is simply too arbitrary, mysterious even to me, and then with fic you have to take into account the vagaries of such things are pairing preference. This is in truth a different point, but I don't think it's possible to change people's character and pairing preferences through argumentation, whether in the form of blog essay or fanfiction. That's because what they're "preferring" is a set of dynamics and traits, that for the purposes of a particular fandom/fanon have such-and-such names attached. Most people know they have types, albeit fuzzy-edged types, and look for them subconsciously. It's easier to distort characters to suit type than it is to change type preference. When you see people say things like, "your fic is so good it's convinced me to accept and like [X], if only for the duration of the story," what they mean is, "you've presented a version of [X] that is essentially not the same [X], the two merely sharing a name; this one falls into a type I find acceptable, the other does not.")

Also, I must confess mechanics do not form a large part of my decision to read or not read a fic. That is to say, spelling mistakes or bad grammar alone don't actually deter me. The fact that they do in practice has more to do with the fact that they're usually a sign of a larger inability to properly organize thoughts on the written page. However, usually does not equal always.

Comments

[worldserpent.livejournal.com]

Annoyance: I think it's less that it's recced by someone and that someone turns out to have poor taste, but that it's universally acknowledged to be good and held up as a standard, rather than hated by some and loved by others. I tend to assume that I am very strange and my taste is particular, so all I can expect out of recs is that it will be minimally acceptable. Bad mechanics deter me, because I do sometimes read things for the style. Also, they're usually a sign of laziness.

Recs: Oh, I follow recs without discrimination. With actual books, I'm rarely disappointed, because if not the best book ever, they're rarely wastes of time. With fanfiction, the amount of time spent is minimal, so why care?

Types: People *try* to change pairings or character preferences through essays or fanfiction? I've never seen this.

[meril.livejournal.com]

People *try* to change pairings or character preferences through essays or fanfiction?

Yup, unfortunately. I just read a HP fic this week that stated it was a "shipsinker" in the subtitle. Needless to say, it was a good thing I was reading it @work and wasn't really wasting my time, as I had nothing else to do. It simply wasn't very good, and there's nothing like seeing OOCness just so the ficcer could prove a point.

[worldserpent.livejournal.com]

That's pretty sad, but considering the ship wars in the HP fandom, sort of unsurprising. Man, can't these people just *wait* until book seven and then tear each other apart?

[petronia.livejournal.com]

The thing is, when people rec and say oh I loved this fic etc., they're not acknowledging it to be good. They're acknowledging that they enjoyed it, which is a very different thing. ^^; I think that perhaps people don't make the distinction enough. If a fic is held up as a standard it's because it's what the vocal majority enjoys and is looking for, and if that implies well-written, it's usually only to the level of being well-written enough for people to read through and not be completely thrown by errors. It wouldn't naturally occur to me to complain if my taste happens not to coincide, because as you say, I assume I'm the peculiar one. ^^;

As Meril says, people do write fic trying to change pairing or character preference. Even if it's not the primary intent, on some level one hopes the presentation is attractive enough that others will be swayed to the idea, upon which they will write more fic about the character, and so on. (And of course it's what pairing wars etc. are all about. When people rant and say I don't see a pairing and so forth, what they mean is: your justification is fallacious and you should listen to my version.)

[worldserpent.livejournal.com]

Heh, but they think it means good. I very, very rarely rec fic, but when I do, it usually means "interesting" enough to read. I acknowledge that it doesn't mean that the actual writing is marvelous, just that it is minimally acceptable. Recs are also helpful for finding the "best" of a genre, or the most typical fic of a sort.

Ah, so it's to make other people write? Interesting. I don't write myself, so I don't really see that aspect. But I've largely given up pairing wars except for arguing that they're authorially intended and why or not.

[fyredancer.livejournal.com]

I'm just breathless in my love for you.

Once again, you articulate my viewpoint more concisely than I ever could have done.

Because you have a brain and use it, yey!

[petronia.livejournal.com]

I was actually discussing this with a few friends last night, and felt rather confused in what I was trying to say, so wrote it down as an entry. It forces me to order my thoughts. XD

[one-if-by-land.livejournal.com]

Argh why must you make me think so early in the morning <3

(Trying to find a way to word it) What it is with me, I think, maybe, possibly, is that if a fic is mediocre but widely recced, it's a bad reflection upon the fandom itself. Especially in anime fandoms which have such small populations, where if a large percentage of people prefer that kind of fic, that leaves very few people left & then I feel my own standards slipping. As much as it sounds, well, bad (XD), I don't write for myself. I've never liked keeping a written journal, I don't like writing out my emotions, & I don't work as hard if it's not going out in public. It's the same with schoolwork. If something's not going to be for a grade & not in many ways beneficial to me, I don't put as much effort into it. I might use something as a writing exercise, sure, but if I'm posting, it has to be as good as I can make it at the moment. And also, if I only wrote for myself, I wouldn't write at all (XDD). I like writing, but English class usually provides me with enough work to keep my occupied. So (oh man, I almost lost my point again) if fandom has a mediocre standard, it's like I can work less on writing and still have the same feedback, and I lose part of my motivation, which would still be okay if it weren't for the fact that then I feel bad about myself for not doing the best that I can.

So it's, um, really just me being bitter .__.

[petronia.livejournal.com]

Oh, I kind of know what you mean there, though. >D If you don't write for yourself you're actually part of the same minority I'm in. (I've come to the conclusion that I really shouldn't speak for others on this topic.) However you may be asking too much of fandom in general. XD If it reflects poorly on fandom, it's no more or less than fandom deserves. Most people have crap taste and judgment in real life - look at the books that become bestsellers - why should fandom be any different? I guess what matters is, uh, self-perpetuating that Asian thing wherein you hold yourself to vastly higher standards than everyone else. >D

Randomly - I was thinking last night of how you always say anime fandoms are small. XD One of my other friends who was also in HP said once that HP is large enough that you can consider the fandom as a sort of "alternate world" to real life. Anime fandom isn't like that (in the West, anyway - it's very large in Japan). It's more about being a part of a group of people who sort of generally like anime/manga, and write fic or whatever. So really I don't think you should worry about "leaving" or "staying in" PoT; even if you never post about PoT in your lj again the people who read you now will still read you anyway. PoT is not the be-all end-all.

[meril.livejournal.com]

even if you never post about PoT in your lj again the people who read you now will still read you anyway.

Agreed. It's not like HP fandom in which if you stop posting about it, quite a bit of your flist will defriend you. (I honestly checked this on joule, to see if my supposition was correct, and it darn well was.)

[worldserpent.livejournal.com]

My take on it is that I'm not really responsible for the rest of the fandom, but then I don't write fanfic so my perspective is different. I don't blog for myself either, though. Personally, though, I've always felt that in many respects HP fandom is not a role model. >_>

Also, what really lowers the reputation of a fandom (as much as one exists, collectively) is people behaving childishly in public, not people writing mediocre stories. So as long as you're not starting flamewars on the comms, I'd say you're doing pretty good.

[dipping_sauce]

People say they get annoyed at fics/authors that are recced widely and otherwise admired, but turn out to be mediocre.

Most people? Are stupid. That's why crap is popular. To paraphrase MST3K: "Just repeat to yourself, 'It's just a book, I should really just relax."

Today's moment of zen is brought to you by Erin's eyeroll at seeing in the paper this morning that The DaVinci Code is still the best-selling English book in the city.