Also apparently I don't know how to use LJ anymore. Tragic. I am rapidly becoming obsolete in more ways than I suspected...
The rapid explosion and preponderance of kink memes saddens me, as a lover and consumer of gen fic. I know the internet is for porn and all that, but still, I dunno, I find there's something missing from fandom when it revolves around comments to some trans-fandom BNF's journal on how X (frequently: and Y) in Z are so hot/sexy/clearly shagging/etc. It's a different kind of fic, I'd argue as most kink memes responses are comments, so have a fairly rigid upper word limit, and rushed by the need to get in there before someone else does etc etc (which also influences word count, save for those few mortals who can write three thousand words a day). I can't help but feel/fear that lots of nuance gets sacrificed for titillating purposes.
I also get the feeling that what often took a while to accomplish - the type casting of a character as sissy/whimpering fool/top dog/whatevs, sometimes irreversibly and tragically - now can happen in the course of a couple of afternoons, as enough people bang enough fics out with Uhura as a sex goddess or whatever else.
In short, I'm sure all the porn was out there when I was a wee one, but man, it sure feels like it's here much more now. I forget the last time daily_snitch had a hot rec that wasn't R or higher. (I suspect I'm also traditionally atypical in my dislike for the overabundance of big bands and any fandom fest with the word bang anywhere in the title. Or come to think, with the word fest in the title.)
What fascinates me of a sudden about this (having watched a number of iterations of the cycle without realizing what I was seeing) is that Fandom has sort of collectively grown "best practices" for the ramp-up stage of something new and shiny coming along? Analogous to, as mentioned, rapid prototyping methodologies in programming/engineering. In which comparison the kink meme, which gets created in the first 48 hours and peaks in activity within the first three months, is in fact the equivalent of requirements gathering - a data repository where ppl get together to brainstorm what they want, while intentionally holding off on judgment and triage. So IMO the (often damn hilarious) outpouring of raw id-stereotype and distorted proto-fanon is a good thing, because it happens in the sandbox, and the response-sketches also happen in the sandbox, and give you (where "you" is the proto-fandom-as-a-whole) not only an afternoon of entertainment but a range of possibilities to mentally respond to thereafter, and - to whatever degree - critique. My guess is that it actually makes the typecasting and other such issues less irreversible, because less insidious, than if the ideas simply took over fic by fic and journal by journal over a period of months, until suddenly they're paradigmatic (but you hate them). This way it's all aired and dusted early, and everything is on the same level. You scroll down to the next comment thread and voila, someone else has proposed a diametrically opposite view for possible espousement.
Of course this pre-supposes that the kink meme is not the end-all of the process, and I really don't think it ever is - after that the new-fledged fandom moves onto the Big Bang stage, where everyone metaphorically goes home and develops ideas (their own as well as whichever others they've adopted from the marketplace). That's where judgment comes in, and critique and nuance and internal consistency, and hopefully also Plot. XD; And here I'm also speaking as someone who isn't fond of Big Bangs, and cannot even tell you why (a distaste for large-scale organized activity of this sort, perhaps? I avoided Yuletide for ages, for no rational reason).
Part of the backlash (I suspect) comes from the fact that it can certainly feel like the end-all of the process, an initial burst of energy that then dies off/goes on to the next fandom, and what's left is weaker for it.
Which is probably wrong--as with rapid prototyping, what you're seeing is activity that wouldn't have happened without the lowered activation energy--but hard to say for sure one way or the other.
It also puts writers like me and narie at a disadvantage, because we can't get our ideas out into the marketplace fast enough, and don't have the stamina for fest-length oeuvres. XD; I would never be able to write for a kink meme. But I still enjoy them a lot, not just for themselves, because my primary motivation for writing fic has always been the carrying on of a one-way dialogue with fandom's proclivities du jour, in my head. XD; I mean, I'm the strategic consultant, right?? My job is to come in toward the end and sum everything up in a tidy 1-page executive summary that hits all the main points.
See above for my deep insights! (http://petronia.livejournal.com/678422.html?thread=4850966#t4850966) LOL ever since I got this job I can't stop mentally operating at this level. But it really fascinates me that there is this standardized process now for something that was always a bit hit or miss with regards to result, and it WORKS.
But I think that Mike's sense of "an initial burst of energy that then dies off/goes on to the next fandom" is also a thing? Given, you know, cultural energy is nomadic, online cultural energy even more so, etc etc etc.
I guess I think of them as part of the general continuum of rapid internet response* - SA-style image-macro/photoshop-fest thread, fuckyeah tumblr, lolmeme, kinkmeme - that seems designed to burn out fast, to burn off excess enthusiasm. The difference with fandom is that the long tail** is... thicker, so while a bunch of people get burnt out in the first flush of excitement a core are left w/ ideas purified by the process. (Mixed salad of all the metaphor there.)
* esp. w/ how some of these are instant reactions to current affairs (e.g. yesterday's triceratops photoshop fest, or lolitics) and some snowball into existence (e.g. various 4chan memes, the odd delay on the skating thing)
** i tried to explain short-body-long-tail to my mother, yesterday. 'it's the internet, if you don't get comments in 24 hours you won't get comments. except randomly 3 years later.'
This is absolutely true but if there is a fannish tendency toward nomadism then I have it, in spades! So I'm part of the problem, not the solution. XD; The fandoms I "own" for extended periods tend to be ones where something flist-social is happening, or where there aren't many other people to muddy with their opinions my intimate relationship with the creator/oeuvre. XD
I actually think - perhaps negatively - that five or ten years ago the fandoms that see a burst of initial concentrated energy around a kinkmeme etc. which then slows to a trickle would simply... never have gotten off the ground in a sustainable way? What _mike says about activation energy. A lot of the books, more obscure TV shows, anime series. Yuletide did a lot for this long tail too, obviously.
Also sub_divided reminds me further down re: my previous theory, which was that anon sandboxes have become more popular as fandom has gotten less countercultural and more politically correct (not the same thing), while at the same time the stuff that would have gotten you kind of judged ten years ago - RPS, genderswitch, furry - have upticked in popular appeal. So you've got this pressure toward moar judginess, and a competing pressure toward moar freakiness. And at the same time, within social media as a whole, a general trend for persistent handles to tie in moar with offline identity. The only viable solution is to go anon.
EDIT OF EDIT and anon in kinkmeme is as much as anything a creative strategy rather than a law, as it is in bitchmeme/secretsmeme (laws, that is, being meant to prevent social breakdowns); I would say a small majority own up to the fills in time to collect kudos, edit and repost elsewhere, etc. It's a way to defer crippling embarrassment, basically.
Nomadism is the solution, not the problem! Long-running fandoms calcify!
yuletide is rare-fandom only, right? there definitely seems to have been a rarefandom explosion, i think in my head i associated that with 1. the increased size of fandom-in-general 2. the ease of its networks esp the use of delicious as a kind of non-friend network 3. the spread of tivo/hulu/next-day torrenting for quick reference/sharing/creation. But the use of kinkmemes as a quick and cheap way of creating a fandom I hadn't really thought of, and... yeah!
the funny thing about kinkmemes-freakiness-judginess of course being that half the time it's less 'kink' and more 'trope' - it's called a kinkmeme but the shameful kink that can only be written and discussed anon is... dude buys dude a puppy, dude and dude have kids.
extra case for anon-as-escape: that skating meme where the west wing au dissolved into raceflame case against: i've been really surprised by how eager people in the inception one are to de-anon! (the small majority that yr edit notes! only, like, really fast? mind you inception is a crazy fast fandom) to me that seems totally contra the whole idea.
I have to admit I don't actually know what I'm talking about; most of my impressions are from second- or third-hand grumbling. Whether the presence of a kinkmeme encourages or precludes a more traditional sort of fandom is, I guess, kind of the big question? Which could be argued either way. Is the burned-out land more fertile, or is the lingering smell of charcoal offputting to future settlers?
Sabina's original analogy to rapid prototyping methodologies/best practices is intriguing. Because you get this mix of things that are done because they work and things that are done because that's how it's been done. Which one anonymity is... kind of depends, probably.
I forgot what may be a key step in the new fandom creation best practice (because I never participate in it XD;), which is the friending meme! Which usually takes place as an adjunct of the first active community in the fandom, and these days that's usually the kink meme. So. Once a certain percentage of key active participants are on each others' flists, you've got a nexus (a potential pool of BNFs... it continues).
Is the burned-out land more fertile, or is the lingering smell of charcoal offputting to future settlers?
i wonder how you'd be able to tell? The inception and bbc-sherlock kms are focused on time-specific media events, so there'd be an inevitable drop-off no matter what - though actually has sherlock been on bbc america? that might cause a spike later. You'd have to look at kinkmemes in fandoms with long-running subject material, i guess...
One possible smell-of-charcoal effect - will the volume of fic generated by a kinkmeme mean a fandom is too big for yuletide's rarefandom remit, even if recent activity has died down?
Is that intentionally the same example jokersama brought up below or... XD; but yeah tbh my sense of humour gets off on the fact that on these memes you encounter completely innocuous, I would like to see A and B cuddling, kind of stuff, side-by-side with actual freaky precise out-there shiz you have no idea how ppl think up in relation to the given characters. And then the latter get po-faced 10,000-word fills featuring a completely sensible explanation for How It Happens.
Different fandoms do have different kinkmeme "personalities", as well... like the Trek AOS one is every combinatorial result of classic stereotype bingo, and the Doctor Who one is truly, truly, hilariously weird and kinky. The Sherlock 2010 one, which is the one I was boggling at, is like full of asexual ppl writing sex stories about asexual ppl /bawling
I think at this point a lot of the ppl who write kinkmeme fills don't actually care about being anon, in the sense that they don't care if they're associated with the kink and/or end product; the draw is the guarantee of instant-gratification feedback, because someone asked for it. Mass customization. XD
oh, intentionally - the inception meme, which is the last i looked at, runs more to kittens than puppies afaik? I am not quite sure what its personality is, either, apart from all the sekuhara-is-okay-when-someone-hot-does-it (it kind of all reads like... gohou drug or something. idk).
full of asexual ppl writing sex stories about asexual ppl
AMAZING
postscript: sabina when you have seen 'inception' please go and read george lazenby**'s tumblr on the subject.
** nb this is not a verified account. except by roger ebert. idek
I mean, who is going to judge you for writing a fic about Jared buying Jensen a cuddly puppy or something??
dude, fandom on lj is the judgiest place on earth. someone you know on your flist may hate RPF, even the gen kind, or think that pet ownership should be a crime etc etc etc
See above comment (http://petronia.livejournal.com/678422.html?thread=4850966#t4850966) - well, in addition I also like pr0nz and hilarity, both of which kink memes tend to provide in abundance. XD;;
And, it's less about what other ppl might judge you for than what you'd feel embarrassed by, sometimes? Personally, I would be extremely embarrassed to post a story about J buying J a cuddly puppy, to my flist, under my proper handle. XD
I thought we (fandom) were going more anon because more people were watching us... including other members of fandom, who are watching for political correctness.
Yeah, I'd forgotten that I had a previous theory XD which I think is still valid: I wrote it out for cisup here (http://petronia.livejournal.com/678422.html?thread=4853014#t4853014).
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winterfish
tl;dr version: I like gen and dislike kink memes because they tend to lack in-depth characterisatio
Date: 2010-08-02 09:17 pm (UTC)The rapid explosion and preponderance of kink memes saddens me, as a lover and consumer of gen fic. I know the internet is for porn and all that, but still, I dunno, I find there's something missing from fandom when it revolves around comments to some trans-fandom BNF's journal on how X (frequently: and Y) in Z are so hot/sexy/clearly shagging/etc. It's a different kind of fic, I'd argue as most kink memes responses are comments, so have a fairly rigid upper word limit, and rushed by the need to get in there before someone else does etc etc (which also influences word count, save for those few mortals who can write three thousand words a day). I can't help but feel/fear that lots of nuance gets sacrificed for titillating purposes.
I also get the feeling that what often took a while to accomplish - the type casting of a character as sissy/whimpering fool/top dog/whatevs, sometimes irreversibly and tragically - now can happen in the course of a couple of afternoons, as enough people bang enough fics out with Uhura as a sex goddess or whatever else.
In short, I'm sure all the porn was out there when I was a wee one, but man, it sure feels like it's here much more now. I forget the last time
Re: tl;dr version: I like gen and dislike kink memes because they tend to lack in-depth characterisa
Date: 2010-08-03 04:47 am (UTC)Of course this pre-supposes that the kink meme is not the end-all of the process, and I really don't think it ever is - after that the new-fledged fandom moves onto the Big Bang stage, where everyone metaphorically goes home and develops ideas (their own as well as whichever others they've adopted from the marketplace). That's where judgment comes in, and critique and nuance and internal consistency, and hopefully also Plot. XD; And here I'm also speaking as someone who isn't fond of Big Bangs, and cannot even tell you why (a distaste for large-scale organized activity of this sort, perhaps? I avoided Yuletide for ages, for no rational reason).
Re: tl;dr version: I like gen and dislike kink memes because they tend to lack in-depth characterisa
Date: 2010-08-03 05:18 am (UTC)Which is probably wrong--as with rapid prototyping, what you're seeing is activity that wouldn't have happened without the lowered activation energy--but hard to say for sure one way or the other.
Re: tl;dr version: I like gen and dislike kink memes because they tend to lack in-depth characterisa
Date: 2010-08-03 05:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-02 09:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-02 09:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 04:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 11:23 am (UTC)I guess I think of them as part of the general continuum of rapid internet response* - SA-style image-macro/photoshop-fest thread, fuckyeah tumblr, lolmeme, kinkmeme - that seems designed to burn out fast, to burn off excess enthusiasm. The difference with fandom is that the long tail** is... thicker, so while a bunch of people get burnt out in the first flush of excitement a core are left w/ ideas purified by the process. (Mixed salad of all the metaphor there.)
* esp. w/ how some of these are instant reactions to current affairs (e.g. yesterday's triceratops photoshop fest, or lolitics) and some snowball into existence (e.g. various 4chan memes, the odd delay on the skating thing)
** i tried to explain short-body-long-tail to my mother, yesterday. 'it's the internet, if you don't get comments in 24 hours you won't get comments. except randomly 3 years later.'
no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 11:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-04 04:15 pm (UTC)I actually think - perhaps negatively - that five or ten years ago the fandoms that see a burst of initial concentrated energy around a kinkmeme etc. which then slows to a trickle would simply... never have gotten off the ground in a sustainable way? What
Also
EDIT OF EDIT and anon in kinkmeme is as much as anything a creative strategy rather than a law, as it is in bitchmeme/secretsmeme (laws, that is, being meant to prevent social breakdowns); I would say a small majority own up to the fills in time to collect kudos, edit and repost elsewhere, etc. It's a way to defer crippling embarrassment, basically.
no subject
Date: 2010-08-04 05:18 pm (UTC)yuletide is rare-fandom only, right? there definitely seems to have been a rarefandom explosion, i think in my head i associated that with 1. the increased size of fandom-in-general 2. the ease of its networks esp the use of delicious as a kind of non-friend network 3. the spread of tivo/hulu/next-day torrenting for quick reference/sharing/creation. But the use of kinkmemes as a quick and cheap way of creating a fandom I hadn't really thought of, and... yeah!
the funny thing about kinkmemes-freakiness-judginess of course being that half the time it's less 'kink' and more 'trope' - it's called a kinkmeme but the shameful kink that can only be written and discussed anon is... dude buys dude a puppy, dude and dude have kids.
extra case for anon-as-escape: that skating meme where the west wing au dissolved into raceflame
case against: i've been really surprised by how eager people in the inception one are to de-anon! (the small majority that yr edit notes! only, like, really fast? mind you inception is a crazy fast fandom) to me that seems totally contra the whole idea.
no subject
Date: 2010-08-04 08:30 pm (UTC)Sabina's original analogy to rapid prototyping methodologies/best practices is intriguing. Because you get this mix of things that are done because they work and things that are done because that's how it's been done. Which one anonymity is... kind of depends, probably.
no subject
Date: 2010-08-04 08:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-05 02:35 pm (UTC)i wonder how you'd be able to tell? The inception and bbc-sherlock kms are focused on time-specific media events, so there'd be an inevitable drop-off no matter what - though actually has sherlock been on bbc america? that might cause a spike later. You'd have to look at kinkmemes in fandoms with long-running subject material, i guess...
One possible smell-of-charcoal effect - will the volume of fic generated by a kinkmeme mean a fandom is too big for yuletide's rarefandom remit, even if recent activity has died down?
(repost to correct html/bbcode confusion)
no subject
Date: 2010-08-04 08:37 pm (UTC)Different fandoms do have different kinkmeme "personalities", as well... like the Trek AOS one is every combinatorial result of classic stereotype bingo, and the Doctor Who one is truly, truly, hilariously weird and kinky. The Sherlock 2010 one, which is the one I was boggling at, is like full of asexual ppl writing sex stories about asexual ppl /bawling
I think at this point a lot of the ppl who write kinkmeme fills don't actually care about being anon, in the sense that they don't care if they're associated with the kink and/or end product; the draw is the guarantee of instant-gratification feedback, because someone asked for it. Mass customization. XD
no subject
Date: 2010-08-05 12:21 pm (UTC)full of asexual ppl writing sex stories about asexual ppl
AMAZING
postscript: sabina when you have seen 'inception' please go and read george lazenby**'s tumblr on the subject.
** nb this is not a verified account. except by roger ebert. idek
no subject
Date: 2010-08-05 01:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-02 09:59 pm (UTC)What makes even less sense to me: anon fluffmemes/genmemes.
I mean, who is going to judge you for writing a fic about Jared buying Jensen a cuddly puppy or something??
no subject
Date: 2010-08-02 10:26 pm (UTC)dude, fandom on lj is the judgiest place on earth. someone you know on your flist may hate RPF, even the gen kind, or think that pet ownership should be a crime etc etc etc
no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 04:52 am (UTC)And, it's less about what other ppl might judge you for than what you'd feel embarrassed by, sometimes? Personally, I would be extremely embarrassed to post a story about J buying J a cuddly puppy, to my flist, under my proper handle. XD
no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 02:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-04 04:23 pm (UTC)