Notes on JoJo part 5, cont.
May. 16th, 2006 12:38 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
petroniaBeginning with part 3, the arch-villain of a JoJo arc has always had some sort of fucked-up time paradox-based ultimate attack. The worrisome part of this is that Killer Queen: Another One Bites The Dust is more complicated and harder to grasp than The World by a degree of magnitude, and King Crimson is harder to grasp than Another One Bites The Dust. If the pattern holds the ultimate arch-villain attack in part 6 will collapse space-time in a reverse Big Bang, and the readers will throw up their hands and go make themselves a gin and tonic (I'm not joking, I really suspect this is what happens and that's why it goes AU afterward D:).
El Boss Man: you begin to realise after a while that he's not solely motivated by safety concerns (it's not paranoia if they're really after you, and the myriads gunning for Diablo most certainly exist), but because his... sense of self?... is entirely predicated on the disjunction between his current self and what he might have been in the past - or the man who at that time existed in his stead. That's the source of King Crimson, if indeed all stands must have a subconscious derivation: the monomaniacal desire that what came to pass be utterly erased, that the link be impossible to draw through time and space. I'd be interested to know how long he's had Doppio around, actually (he looks Trish's age, but that only means as much as you want it to).
...But no, more importantly. What is up with his character design?!? Sure, volume 60 seen it all blahblah, but the spider-woman black lace shirt! The hair! Not only is it inherently baffling, it breaks the no-polka-dots-with-stripes rule!
&&& he wears lipstick but that passes nearly without comment. What pains me more is that for the longest time it was Bruno in there. Which brings me to--
Mista in Trish. Which was clearly the hottest thing to have happened to Mista since forever, or the White Album fight at least.
Pistols: Hi Mista you are looking hot today, can we touch you. :D x 6
Mista: Um, guys--
Trish: EWWWWWW YOU HAVE B.O. AND THERE'S HAIR GROWING OUT OF YOUR KNUCKLES EWWWWWWW GROSSSS.
Mista: ...
Mista: Well, excuse me for being a smelly hairy MAN I'm su--
Trish: WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING.
Mista: What, nothing!
Mista: ........It's just you've given yourself a wedgie from running arou--
Trish: BITCH KEEP YOUR HANDS ABOVE THE WAIST OR I CUT YOU.
Mista: ...
Everyone gets wince-inducingly damaged in this series but Mista seems to have a preponderance of "On the bright side, this solves the problem. On the not so bright side, in three seconds this is going to hurt like a motherfu--OW" scenes. (Giorno has a preponderance of Langorously Expiring Narcissus poses. Srsly I think he spent the entire Narancia vs Squalo/Tizziano fight aesthetically dead. Also spotted some Adonises and a couple of Pietas in there; the story takes place in Italy you see, it's only natural it should look like Italian paintings.) Mista is kind of uke to the universe, though. T_T He's not really uke by way of character but I can't explain it better than that. The moral of his backstory - indeed of his entire short life including series events - is that if you go with the Flow the Flow will bring you, if not to where you want to be then to where you're supposed to be. The catch is that you may be in danger of getting raped at points in-between.
But yeah, this does remind me of Howl's Moving Castle, or DWJ endings in general - a lot of people running around shouting and doing confusing things to other people all at the same time, while actually being some other person or combination thereof. And I DDDD:ed quite a lot because I have as much affection for Polnareff and Chariot as any right-minded reader of part 3 and cannot bear to see Araki be m33n to them. Then when he had everything on the verge of wrapped up he seemed to abruptly realise he won't ever be drawing these characters again OH NOES D: and proceeded to insert the sort of side story most mangaka reserve for Jump special issues or fanbooks, just to have more stupid lunchtime conversations about eating Narancia (...) and Fugo being eye-rolling and Mista being cute and Buccellati being himself. It was pretty great though, I applaud the gambit, ends things on a philosophical note. XD
Speaking of kotatsu, er... how about that Gold Experience Requiem. ^^; It's clever, you have to admit.
Gold Experience
1) Neutralises the effect of physical attacks through equal and opposite force (automatic).
2) Gives "life" to inert matter.
Gold Experience Requiem
1) Neutralises the effect of any attack through equal and opposite force (automatic).
2) Collapses "life" to non-existence.
That is, for a time-based attack like King Crimson it simply "rewinds" whatever it was that was done, and Giorno doesn't even need to be conscious in the interim, any more than he was in control of Lucas getting bashed over the head with his own shovel. So if time stop were used on him, it probably would go off like that comic where Giorno barely noticed anything had happened apart from being confused that GoldExp Requiem had suddenly popped out. XD;;
As for #2 Giorno/Araki himself is only able to circumscribe rather than describe, through metaphor, but it makes sense in a... I thought of the goddess Kali, actually.
Pairings: I kind of like Bruno/Trish. Yeah. >_> This is canon, actually, in an... extremely understated way (i.e. if the series had that kind of fandom there would be wank over whether it was canon or not, because the Buccellati/Abbacha and Fugo/Trish shippers would DENY ALL). He's completely professional and she's coltish and standoffy and they have more pressing fish to fry and nothing's said in the other's hearing and he saves her life at the expense of his own and it's just doomed from the start, pretty much. All of Araki's het pairings are insane and/or tragic and/or doomed, when he can be bothered to put them in, and indeed words like "tragic" and "doomed" feel like overstating the case because it's hardly given the emotional centrality of Tristan und Isolde (apart from Jonathan and Erina). But maybe for that reason, I end up shipping them all. =_= Even Kira and his not!wife, they were so cute in a... a... I got nothing.
I also like Giorno/Mista, which does not seem to be weird fandom-wise, but is kind of weird for me. XD (I remember now what I wanted to point out - Mista is uke because Araki says so. -_- The disturbing thing is that the Bast "stuck in the middle with you" episode was yanno, a gay joke, anyone can make a gay joke, but no one could've come up with the post-White Album gag without at least some cursory exposure to yaoi doujinshi.) And I have to keep back notes on the other possibilities, for fic, but it is really one of those "mathematically combinatory" series. XD;;
Due to detour into dragons etc. have barely started reading part 6, but let's take a look at the premise. Or better, engage in a mental exercise:
Name the number of Weekly Jump series you can think of that have
El Boss Man: you begin to realise after a while that he's not solely motivated by safety concerns (it's not paranoia if they're really after you, and the myriads gunning for Diablo most certainly exist), but because his... sense of self?... is entirely predicated on the disjunction between his current self and what he might have been in the past - or the man who at that time existed in his stead. That's the source of King Crimson, if indeed all stands must have a subconscious derivation: the monomaniacal desire that what came to pass be utterly erased, that the link be impossible to draw through time and space. I'd be interested to know how long he's had Doppio around, actually (he looks Trish's age, but that only means as much as you want it to).
...But no, more importantly. What is up with his character design?!? Sure, volume 60 seen it all blahblah, but the spider-woman black lace shirt! The hair! Not only is it inherently baffling, it breaks the no-polka-dots-with-stripes rule!
&&& he wears lipstick but that passes nearly without comment. What pains me more is that for the longest time it was Bruno in there. Which brings me to--
Mista in Trish. Which was clearly the hottest thing to have happened to Mista since forever, or the White Album fight at least.
Pistols: Hi Mista you are looking hot today, can we touch you. :D x 6
Mista: Um, guys--
Trish: EWWWWWW YOU HAVE B.O. AND THERE'S HAIR GROWING OUT OF YOUR KNUCKLES EWWWWWWW GROSSSS.
Mista: ...
Mista: Well, excuse me for being a smelly hairy MAN I'm su--
Trish: WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING.
Mista: What, nothing!
Mista: ........It's just you've given yourself a wedgie from running arou--
Trish: BITCH KEEP YOUR HANDS ABOVE THE WAIST OR I CUT YOU.
Mista: ...
Everyone gets wince-inducingly damaged in this series but Mista seems to have a preponderance of "On the bright side, this solves the problem. On the not so bright side, in three seconds this is going to hurt like a motherfu--OW" scenes. (Giorno has a preponderance of Langorously Expiring Narcissus poses. Srsly I think he spent the entire Narancia vs Squalo/Tizziano fight aesthetically dead. Also spotted some Adonises and a couple of Pietas in there; the story takes place in Italy you see, it's only natural it should look like Italian paintings.) Mista is kind of uke to the universe, though. T_T He's not really uke by way of character but I can't explain it better than that. The moral of his backstory - indeed of his entire short life including series events - is that if you go with the Flow the Flow will bring you, if not to where you want to be then to where you're supposed to be. The catch is that you may be in danger of getting raped at points in-between.
But yeah, this does remind me of Howl's Moving Castle, or DWJ endings in general - a lot of people running around shouting and doing confusing things to other people all at the same time, while actually being some other person or combination thereof. And I DDDD:ed quite a lot because I have as much affection for Polnareff and Chariot as any right-minded reader of part 3 and cannot bear to see Araki be m33n to them. Then when he had everything on the verge of wrapped up he seemed to abruptly realise he won't ever be drawing these characters again OH NOES D: and proceeded to insert the sort of side story most mangaka reserve for Jump special issues or fanbooks, just to have more stupid lunchtime conversations about eating Narancia (...) and Fugo being eye-rolling and Mista being cute and Buccellati being himself. It was pretty great though, I applaud the gambit, ends things on a philosophical note. XD
Speaking of kotatsu, er... how about that Gold Experience Requiem. ^^; It's clever, you have to admit.
Gold Experience
1) Neutralises the effect of physical attacks through equal and opposite force (automatic).
2) Gives "life" to inert matter.
Gold Experience Requiem
1) Neutralises the effect of any attack through equal and opposite force (automatic).
2) Collapses "life" to non-existence.
That is, for a time-based attack like King Crimson it simply "rewinds" whatever it was that was done, and Giorno doesn't even need to be conscious in the interim, any more than he was in control of Lucas getting bashed over the head with his own shovel. So if time stop were used on him, it probably would go off like that comic where Giorno barely noticed anything had happened apart from being confused that GoldExp Requiem had suddenly popped out. XD;;
As for #2 Giorno/Araki himself is only able to circumscribe rather than describe, through metaphor, but it makes sense in a... I thought of the goddess Kali, actually.
Pairings: I kind of like Bruno/Trish. Yeah. >_> This is canon, actually, in an... extremely understated way (i.e. if the series had that kind of fandom there would be wank over whether it was canon or not, because the Buccellati/Abbacha and Fugo/Trish shippers would DENY ALL). He's completely professional and she's coltish and standoffy and they have more pressing fish to fry and nothing's said in the other's hearing and he saves her life at the expense of his own and it's just doomed from the start, pretty much. All of Araki's het pairings are insane and/or tragic and/or doomed, when he can be bothered to put them in, and indeed words like "tragic" and "doomed" feel like overstating the case because it's hardly given the emotional centrality of Tristan und Isolde (apart from Jonathan and Erina). But maybe for that reason, I end up shipping them all. =_= Even Kira and his not!wife, they were so cute in a... a... I got nothing.
I also like Giorno/Mista, which does not seem to be weird fandom-wise, but is kind of weird for me. XD (I remember now what I wanted to point out - Mista is uke because Araki says so. -_- The disturbing thing is that the Bast "stuck in the middle with you" episode was yanno, a gay joke, anyone can make a gay joke, but no one could've come up with the post-White Album gag without at least some cursory exposure to yaoi doujinshi.) And I have to keep back notes on the other possibilities, for fic, but it is really one of those "mathematically combinatory" series. XD;;
Due to detour into dragons etc. have barely started reading part 6, but let's take a look at the premise. Or better, engage in a mental exercise:
Name the number of Weekly Jump series you can think of that have
- a female protagonist. Not the main love interest or the most important character besides the hero, the POV protagonist.
- a teenaged female protagonist?
- a buff, asskicking teenaged female protagonist who neither looks nor behaves conventionally schoolgirl-cute?
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argh, the html got fucked up last time
Date: 2006-05-16 06:11 am (UTC)As for the end of part 6, um....no comment. >___________>
But I have uploaded the raws for part 6. (http://www.chthonian.net/teehee/Part%206%20raws.zip) >3
A few more thoughts...um...yeah, poor Mista. XD; He's even uke to his own stand! Who else has stands that boss them around?
Body-swapping: It really is great fun in the game to play body-swapped Bruno; you'll be chasing after Silver Chariot Requiem in Diablo's body, zipping things up all over the place. XD SPEAKING OF WHICH, there's something inherently horrible and hilarious when you play any of the Polnareff stages (and yes, he's playable; did you notice that Silver Chariot just has spikes for lower legs now? XD;;;) Whenever King Crimson is fighting Polnareff, you see this man and his wheelchair getting flung around all over the place, and it's just NOT RIGHT XDDD But to compensate for that, he's actually very fast and tough and surprisingly mobile; pretty much what you'd expect from someone who'd survived Part 3 and everything after. I was able to defend myself remarkably well from KC despite everything.
Who knows why he decided to put body-swapping in there, though, other than to be able to kill people without killing other people? It's not like anyone was ever really fooled by the bodyswap, as is the case in most other series that try that.
Bruno x Trish: You know, I can see it. Although all the boys are extremely attached to Bruno, I've never really been able to see him taking an active interest in any of them other than GioGio (mostly because it seems to be one of those "we understand each other" things). The thing is, he really is so professional about the whole business with Trish, and it's always so hectic and dangerous that it's hard to say - what does she think of him anyways? Besides being the head fashion disaster protecting her? XD; This (http://jojo.highervoltage.net/part5/vol_53_files/jojo053-01.jpg) is really a cute picture though (wait, I just noticed that she grinding her thigh into his crotch WHAT GIVES, ARAKI?)
I think the most hilarious scene was when Bruno was watching her in the turtle, and she had to pee, and he just zipped open the floor of the turtle, and was perplexed when she was all, "GAH! YOU ARE SUCH A GUY!" "What, I won't look! ?_?"
Besides, once she'd warmed up to them a bit, I'd bet that GioGio, Bruno, and Fugo would be the easiest to get along with in regular circumstances (if you weren't scared by Fugo's occasional bursts of CAPSLOCK RAGE, that is), in that they're the most easy-going and really, the most normally-socialized just based on behavior.
If there were het shipping wars, I think it'd be more over whether Bruno or Mista has her love, actually. XD The JP fen seem to be into Mista/Trish, possibly because of the whole bodyswap thing. XD; Araki claims that none of the guys have girlfriends or are popular with the ladies, but he says it's just because they're too...busy, that's it. (Of course, they all THINK they're hot shit with the ladies, though.)
I'm extremely fond of the few het romances Araki puts in his series, because when he can be arsed to do them, they're so weird and fun. It's never a typical "hero sweeps shy helpless girl off her feet" thing, except for Jonathan/Erina, I suppose. Even with Jolyne, it seems to be more of a matter of her finally grudgingly accepting the constant declarations from her pet psychopath than him wowing her with his manliness or hijacking the storyline. XD You can't really steal the scene from a Joestar unless you're another Joestar!
And finally, as for Jolyne...it's kind of hilarious. Early on, the villains are like, "tohoho, we will destroy the teenage daughter of Kujo Jotaro! Mwahaha!" and presently they realize that they are trying to destroy the teenage daughter of Kujo Jotaro.
Re: argh, the html got fucked up last time
Date: 2006-05-16 09:25 pm (UTC)A few more thoughts...um...yeah, poor Mista. XD; He's even uke to his own stand! Who else has stands that boss them around?
Mista: You know how Mediterranean countries are, everything grinds to a halt in the middle of the day, I mean I'm not saying I'm like that, you understand, but these guys...
Giorno:
Giorno: I'm sorry. Did you just say we can't get to work because. Your stand. Needs to eat lunch.
Mista: Or else they sulk. Bad habit, I know.
Giorno:
Giorno: So how many of these little numbered--
Mista: They're not numbers, they're people.
Giorno:
Mista: Hey, guys, don't fight! One at a time, and learn to share!
Giorno:
Yeah, with Bruno it's like he was naturally a beacon of kindness and rectitude in a universe completely lacking in either, and he sort of did what he could for the people he took under his wing but thought the general circumstances were immutable. And then Giorno came along and said, "Screw the rules, why not go straight to the top and work your way down?" and it was like a light switched on for him. Half of it being the dose of geebus-why-didn't-I-think-of-that Joestar lateral thinking, and half of it just meeting ONE OTHER RIGHTEOUS PERSON IN THE COLD UNFEELING UNIVERSE WHO AGREES WITH YOU.
I think the most hilarious scene was when Bruno was watching her in the turtle, and she had to pee, and he just zipped open the floor of the turtle, and was perplexed when she was all, "GAH! YOU ARE SUCH A GUY!" "What, I won't look! ?_?"
IIRC what he said was something like, "Well this is a dimensional pocket inside a dimensional pocket so I'm not technically sure where it goes, but maybe the turtle will find it nutritious." I was like, dude, I'm not sure I'd risk that. XD;;
Haha, yeah, Mista/Trish! He did notice she has boobs, which is more than can be said for some of the others. XD
(Some of them you can picture with a girlfriend, and some of them it's just like... *blanks out*. I have trouble picturing Giorno with a girl. He does kind of remind me of Reinhard out of LoGH, and similarly to Reinhard I just get the feeling girls etc. are REALLY REALLY LOW on the list of priorities/interests. Nothing against them, you understand, but compared to conquering the known universe it's not any kind of contest.)
Did Araki actually base Jolyne on the girl in Dolly Parton's song? >_> Why would you aahhh never mind.
Re: argh, the html got fucked up last time
Date: 2006-05-16 11:28 pm (UTC)(Anyone else who wants it, do the same!)
This (http://homepage2.nifty.com/giogiop/) seems to be the place to go for het giojo fanart. XD; With Giorno/Mista, we've always joked it'd be something like this:
Mista: N, no, seriously, dude, I'm straight!
Giorno: MUDA DA >D
Mista: ......oh, dammit, fine T_T
Also, from IRC:
puu> hahahaha, mista
puu> MISTA IS SO SKANKY
kt> he is >3
nemi> where did the random mista skankiness come from
* puu was summarizing the mista vs. sale fight
puu> with the title page with him sticking his gun down the front of his pants (http://www.chthonian.net/teehee/jojo050-23.png)...
kt> well, at least he hasn't shot his bits off by accident?
kt> like so many darwin award nominees have while doing the same thing?
puu> only because the pistols value their own structural integrity! >_>
kt> XD
puu> I'm sure he has on accident, and the pistols have frantically deflected bullets
puu> so there will be these holes in his pants
puu> and everyone will be swearing at him not to sit down so hard
You're right; I don't think Giorno'd take a romantic interest in another person unless they were somehow actively involved in His Dream. Nice as he is, in a way he's kind of a creepily focused little boy, and unless you're helping him achieve his goals, I don't think you'd really show up on his radar. Or so it seems to me. Like, the guys in the group, he's polite and nice to all of them, because he has to gain their friendship to work his way up, but it's only when they proved themselves willing to maim themselves for the sake of the Goal that he really noticed them.
I wonder; if Bruno had lived, how exactly would that have worked out? Bruno and Giorno wanted to get rid of the boss, but then what? Giorno wants to be a Gang Star, so did they always intend to make him the new Boss, with Bruno as one of his operatives or maybe an advisor, or what? I mean, Bruno is technically Giogio's leader...if they knocked off the Boss, wouldn't Bruno technically be the one who is next in line?
(Speaking of today, here's today's dose of sparkly posing awesome. (http://www.chthonian.net/teehee/jojo049-16.jpg))
(BTW, you suppose Doppio counts as Diablo's "advisor"? The #2 position in the gang that Bruno mentions; Belcaro is just an operative.)
Um, if Araki had based Jolyne off of ANYTHING Dolly Parton-related, wouldn't she have had to be POPPING OUT OF HER TOP? XD; No, just kidding; I dunno, I guess he just liked the song! Jolyne isn't much of a vamp, though; she's kind of innocent in a way. IIRC at one point someone says that Jolyne is so starved for affection and love (the implication is that it's largely DADDY'S FAULT for neglecting her) that she tends to mistake attention for genuine love, which is why she tends to fall in with bad crowds.
Re: argh, the html got fucked up last time
Date: 2006-05-17 03:49 am (UTC)Ha but at least in that picture you can see Mista is wearing underwear, so it could be worse. =_= I was worried he would have an accident too, until I realised the bullets weren't going anywhere without his permission. (And the scene when he first lands in Trish and doesn't realise and tries to shove his gun down his pants was just gold. "That kind of didn't feel ri--*grope* OH WHAT.")
I'm pretty sure neither Giorno nor Bruno thought that far, though. XD; They started off with such a long shot, thinking they would take years to work their way up the organization... It's kind of hard to say what would have happened, I don't know that it would've been an issue unless they came to a disagreement that would require rank being pulled (no idea what).
There's a lot of what I think of as necessary exposition that Araki leapfrogs over, though (thus proving it not so necessary XD;). Like who really explains the stand user demimonde to Giorno, finally? Koichi? Bruno? Did he just let Koichi walk out of the room that time, when he wouldn't even let him call Jotaro (does he have any idea whom Koichi was trying to contact)? Does anyone beside Bruno ever find out Giorno was the one who offed Luca? (probably not) Does even Bruno know that Giorno offed Polpo, thus setting off the entire chain of events leading to Trish and Diablo?
I mean, the reason I think Giorno never thought as far as what would happen if/when they overthrew El Boss is because he wasn't expecting the repercussions of his previous actions either. He didn't do in Luca because he figured someone like Buccellati would seek him out, and Polpo was for justice, not gain. But he has eyes open to opportunities, and from afar the result can look positively machiavellian. XD
I kind of thought Doppio was? At least, IIRC Doppio thought of himself as Diablo's advisor, and if it's not him I can't think who it could be. ^^;
Re: argh, the html got fucked up last time
Date: 2006-05-17 06:44 am (UTC)I swear that Mista only has one pair of undies, and when it's laundry day..or week...or month...he goes commando.
As for disagreements...geez, I dunno what kind of argument that'd have to be. It seems that if anyone disagrees with the other, they at least listen to each others' arguments. Especially those two; they're level-headed, as opposed to Narancia who's impulsive, or Abbacha who's just bullheaded. XD
I think a lot of that expository stand stuff is skipped over because you see Giogio actively learning how to use his stand - he first physically manifested it a month ago (although he had the ability since childhood, based on his flashbacks), at first he doesn't know what punching someone with it will do, then he learns how to use it more and more creatively...I think that's more interesting than someone sitting him down and giving him a lecture on Stand mechanics.
And another thing: Giorno has no personal link to Dio or conception of his FAAAAAABULOUS evil; apart from the photo in his wallet - which makes sense to me from his characterization as a lonely emo little boy who hated his abusive family and therefore just had this picture of an absent father with him - Giorno doesn't truly have any emotional link to the whole Dio-arcs of JoJo. So I think it was wise not to bring in Koichi or Jotaro or anything else after the beginning, or to have him wangst about the evil in his blood, because all of those are sort of superfluous to him. Anyways, it'd just go something like this:
Jotaro: I killed your father.
Giorno: Oh. Why?
Jotaro: He was really, really, really evil. Also he was a vampire.
Giorno: Hmmm, probably deserved to die, then.
Jotaro: ...yeah.
Giorno: ...want to get a drink?
Jotaro: ...yeah.
Giorno's wayyy too pragmatic to be hung up on being the son of someone evil; after all, he totally thinks gangsters are awesome people as long as they're nice to (him) the helpless!