The Avengers structural exercise (pt.4)
May. 23rd, 2012 02:12 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
petroniaPart 1 | Part 2 | Part 3
The rest of the second act:
Thor vs. Loki 1. Thor teleports onto a planetravelling at warp speed, and can you freeze frame the look on Loki's face? Not to retype all my Loki thoughts in the comments to part 1, but IMO Thor delivered on archetypal psychological conflict, even if it didn't quite work qua superhero movie - like, I keep joking that Astolat writes Loki as Francis Lymond, but Astolat didn't make up the weird basic similarity between their backstories. Also, more The Lion In Winter than Richard III, bless ye Branagh. Whereas Whedon has the actors set up Tony's "Shakespeare in the Park" zing to its full extent, after which I was basically incapable of taking this scene seriously ever again.
Sidebar on the really big crowd laughs in this film, which are consistent in this order:
5- The "shawarma" speech. All Tony, but as much catharsis as anything.
4- "Doth Mother know". Tony, again, but it's only funny because it's true (of Thor and Loki).
3- Hulk punches Thor out of the frame. Pure comedic timing.
2- "He's adopted". This is OOC for Thor, in the sense that Thor neither means it, nor has the sense of humour where he'd say it just to be (in)appropriately witty (as Tony would). Joss had to go for the ba-da-tish, I guess. Note that Hemsworth is actually the one who makes the line work.
1- Hulk whacks Loki. This is perfectly cathartic not only because it speaks to what makes Loki work as a villain (as opposed to emo woobie), but because it speaks to what makes the Hulk compelling. I can believe this is the first time they got that right in the movies, because I've never been moved to ponder the question before.
The point is, Thor vs. Loki misses out on being the central emotional arc of The Avengers - there's a lot of messy emotion, but not much arc. (Sororial unit complained that no one had an arc except Bruce, which is a fair point by which to judge the movie, though I assume it was intentional.)
Thor vs. Iron Man. Meanwhile, plenty of ppl watched this movie to see stuff like this, not "emotional arcs." As shounen manga howdy-do FITES go, they're successful - I prize clarity of visual narrative above all in action sequences, and the blow-counterblow stuff is beautifully choreographed and laid out. Thor's lightning "recharging" Tony is Looney Tunes (not to mention a Chekhov's Gun that needed firing in the third act), but. I particularly liked the one where Iron Man headbutts Thor, and Thor headbutts him right back leaving a dent.
Captain America vs. Thor 1. Tony's put-upon sigh indicates that he did the math in his head a fraction of a second before the shockwave actually happened. Anyway. There is little lasting character effect because they're both honourable warriors, how do you even meet new people in wuxia without a tussle. All that's missing is a bamboo grove, though they do level some boreal forest.
Loki vs. Fury. Messed up the order again -- they go back to the Helicarrier, Loki trolls Bruce, then Fury puts him in a jar, as if it weren't obvious he came on purpose, since he didn't run away when Cap, Iron Man, and Thor were smashing each other in the face. Still think Subdee's comment on this face-off is the best: though I rewatched the film with it in mind, and what Loki says to him can actually be taken both ways simultaneously - referring to him losing the Cube to Loki, and losing power/direction to the Council. Dual meanings are perfectly in character for those two, of course.
Group discussion on the bridge (Tony vs. Bruce 1 / Thor vs. Coulson 1). Back on the Helicarrier, where Thor infodumps about stuff we already knew (needs editing, there).
The key meetup here is Tony and Bruce. It's a lovely subversion of expectations on first watch; one suspects Whedon discovered it as he wrote it. But of course, if Tony did stay up reading all of Solveig's and Bruce's research, he would be predisposed to like them - especially Bruce. (Yinsen was a special case, but in another sense, not really. Why doesn't Tony have any real friends from MIT?)
There was still a test, though! A little test. Bruce passed it easily, and I think he knew he passed it, because people who are used to being the smartest in the room do this all the time. It's not being an asshole, at least if you're mature enough to realize IQ isn't the be-all end-all; you just want to know. The honourable warrior tussle, not the Loki-style verbal blood-drawing. Anyway, the reason this scene gets so much love is because nerds know how heady that sense of instant intellectual connection is, when you end up talking with someone you just met for 23 hours straight. XD; They even reach the "awkward personal overshare" stage right on target, an hour or two into their lab time, and start on about heart shrapnel and stuff that Tony normally doesn't discuss with anyone. Also, Tony is not even joking when he says he is a fan of the Hulk. Tony is that six-year-old who can't keep his mouth shut about having a superhero identity and thinks the Hulk is the coolest thing ever.
Thor is angry and sad and worn down with it, even suffering a spot of self-loathing, which is awful because against the seeming nature of things. Like a droopy Golden Retriever.
cont.
The rest of the second act:
Thor vs. Loki 1. Thor teleports onto a plane
Sidebar on the really big crowd laughs in this film, which are consistent in this order:
5- The "shawarma" speech. All Tony, but as much catharsis as anything.
4- "Doth Mother know". Tony, again, but it's only funny because it's true (of Thor and Loki).
3- Hulk punches Thor out of the frame. Pure comedic timing.
2- "He's adopted". This is OOC for Thor, in the sense that Thor neither means it, nor has the sense of humour where he'd say it just to be (in)appropriately witty (as Tony would). Joss had to go for the ba-da-tish, I guess. Note that Hemsworth is actually the one who makes the line work.
1- Hulk whacks Loki. This is perfectly cathartic not only because it speaks to what makes Loki work as a villain (as opposed to emo woobie), but because it speaks to what makes the Hulk compelling. I can believe this is the first time they got that right in the movies, because I've never been moved to ponder the question before.
The point is, Thor vs. Loki misses out on being the central emotional arc of The Avengers - there's a lot of messy emotion, but not much arc. (Sororial unit complained that no one had an arc except Bruce, which is a fair point by which to judge the movie, though I assume it was intentional.)
Thor vs. Iron Man. Meanwhile, plenty of ppl watched this movie to see stuff like this, not "emotional arcs." As shounen manga howdy-do FITES go, they're successful - I prize clarity of visual narrative above all in action sequences, and the blow-counterblow stuff is beautifully choreographed and laid out. Thor's lightning "recharging" Tony is Looney Tunes (not to mention a Chekhov's Gun that needed firing in the third act), but. I particularly liked the one where Iron Man headbutts Thor, and Thor headbutts him right back leaving a dent.
Captain America vs. Thor 1. Tony's put-upon sigh indicates that he did the math in his head a fraction of a second before the shockwave actually happened. Anyway. There is little lasting character effect because they're both honourable warriors, how do you even meet new people in wuxia without a tussle. All that's missing is a bamboo grove, though they do level some boreal forest.
Loki vs. Fury. Messed up the order again -- they go back to the Helicarrier, Loki trolls Bruce, then Fury puts him in a jar, as if it weren't obvious he came on purpose, since he didn't run away when Cap, Iron Man, and Thor were smashing each other in the face. Still think Subdee's comment on this face-off is the best: though I rewatched the film with it in mind, and what Loki says to him can actually be taken both ways simultaneously - referring to him losing the Cube to Loki, and losing power/direction to the Council. Dual meanings are perfectly in character for those two, of course.
Group discussion on the bridge (Tony vs. Bruce 1 / Thor vs. Coulson 1). Back on the Helicarrier, where Thor infodumps about stuff we already knew (needs editing, there).
The key meetup here is Tony and Bruce. It's a lovely subversion of expectations on first watch; one suspects Whedon discovered it as he wrote it. But of course, if Tony did stay up reading all of Solveig's and Bruce's research, he would be predisposed to like them - especially Bruce. (Yinsen was a special case, but in another sense, not really. Why doesn't Tony have any real friends from MIT?)
There was still a test, though! A little test. Bruce passed it easily, and I think he knew he passed it, because people who are used to being the smartest in the room do this all the time. It's not being an asshole, at least if you're mature enough to realize IQ isn't the be-all end-all; you just want to know. The honourable warrior tussle, not the Loki-style verbal blood-drawing. Anyway, the reason this scene gets so much love is because nerds know how heady that sense of instant intellectual connection is, when you end up talking with someone you just met for 23 hours straight. XD; They even reach the "awkward personal overshare" stage right on target, an hour or two into their lab time, and start on about heart shrapnel and stuff that Tony normally doesn't discuss with anyone. Also, Tony is not even joking when he says he is a fan of the Hulk. Tony is that six-year-old who can't keep his mouth shut about having a superhero identity and thinks the Hulk is the coolest thing ever.
Thor is angry and sad and worn down with it, even suffering a spot of self-loathing, which is awful because against the seeming nature of things. Like a droopy Golden Retriever.
cont.
