Of course I say "don't marathon it" but what does it look like I've been doing x_x

[petronia]

"You think of yourself as a hero but do you know your reputation in Korea?" OUCH THAT HURT. Didn't see it coming. Am shamefully not swotted up re Japanese invasions of the mainland. See, when I say Mirage lacks gen fans what I mean is I need people to discuss the implications of this sort of passage with me.

Of course, in the annals of Lines People Really Didn't Want To Have To Hear, that one still falls quite a ways below "Hullo, Mitsuhide. Haven't seen you since the Honnouji incident, have I?"

Would anyone like me to make a linkpost re the actual historical Yashashuu members plus assorted onshou (given that I, uhm, know crap-all about Japanese history other than what I've learnt from the intarweb, T's textbooks and tsutanai), or have y'all taken full advantage of Google and Wikipedia already? ...Ahh, screw it. For the sake of reference:

Uesugi Kenshin. From which we learn that the man did not start off as either Kenshin or an Uesugi, which is sort of a general theme of this period. No women, much sake. Apparently this led to a crack rumour that Kenshin in fact was a woman, which perhaps explains Paku Romi (if you don't know what I'm talking about, worry not haha).

List of Uesugi generals (this whole site is rather good for quickie lookups). A surprising - okay, not really surprising is it - number of these people do crop up in Mirage; even if they're not mentioned by name I imagine a whole bunch of them were at Aso *weep*. That and read about the Yashashuu plus Kagekatsu's traumatic parentage. XD; Drawing a chart comes in handy. Also, Naoe Nobutsuna isn't in there because he's terribly obscure. There's an oddly compelling logic behind why Kuwabara picked him to pick on, though, which goes roughly like this:

Naoe Kanetsuna was one of Kenshin's loyal retainers from his early days - iirc he was one of the people who convinced him as a teenager to make a claim for the leadership of the Nagao family. He was considerably older than Kenshin and lived to an advanced age, but had no son and only one(?) daughter, whose name was Ofune I think but don't quote me on that. Nobutsuna was actually the son of a branch of the Nagao family, to whom Kanetsuna married said daughter, at the same time adopting him as heir. After Otate and Nobutsuna's death (Kanetsuna having died before Kenshin), in order to continue the family name, Kagekatsu had Ofune marry - well, damned if I could ever read his original name kanji but Higuchi something, and that was Naoe Kanetsugu. Who is famous. You know it because he's in video games. Thus,

Kenshin (father) -> Kagetora (obscure adopted son 1) -> Kagekatsu (famous adopted son 2)
Kanetsuna (father) -> Nobutsuna (obscure adopted son-in-law 1) -> Kanetsugu (famous adopted son-in-law 2)

.....Makes sense? x_x Oh, and Kanetsugu was Kagekatsu's lover from before he was a Naoe. Somebody'll probably spork me for leaving that point out. Although I swear I won't talk about the Helmet of Love. The point is, by fangirl logic the Uesugi are obviously supposed to have a Naoe each the way Fowls have Butlers or Bagginses have Gamgees, so if you're going to make Saburou Kagetora the protagonist of your book (which is a great idea all things considered, because his backstory is so much plot/angst-fodder), you had better assign him a Naoe as well.

On Kagekatsu, Nagahide etc. ...Uh, tomorrow. *goes back to reading book*

Comments

[sargraf.livejournal.com]

Curious about many things, but mostly... why are you wailing re: Chiaki? o_O

[petronia.livejournal.com]

I'll give you a few keywords: "disguised suicide attempt", "failure at taking own advice", "Nobunaga". -_-;

[sargraf.livejournal.com]

O_o *tries to decipher..*

[tsutanai.livejournal.com]

The problem is, despite it being a Helmet of Love, with further study? It's actually most probably a Helmet of Aizen Myou-ou. Which is, you know, somewhat less.... Well, it wouldn't have made Fountain of Trivia, I'm sure. XD

(Not that it isn't a connection, given Uesugi Kenshin's Bishamonten, er, fetish? But, anyway.)

[petronia.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, I know. I mean, it makes so much more sense that way. XD;; (Then again, isn't Aizen Myouou's jurisdiction attainment of enlightenment through purification of earthly love or something like that?)

What I would like to know is if all the top Uesugi generals picked their own favorite Buddhist deity helmet. That would be teh funneh.

[ayatsujik.livejournal.com]

Kanetsugu was Kagekatsu's lover from before he was a Naoe.

*...helplessly*

You are so much rabu for this. ♥ And do, do talk about the Helmet of Love here if you never talk about it anywhere else onegaishimasu?

(See, I'm always impressed by how you parallel reading Mirage for the crack/sex with what bits of history sensei not-quite-mangles. The latter *does* interest me, but I'm always too lazy to go and dig up stuff right after or during reading each book. Did try Wikipedia JA for Naoe last Dec, but hardly anything. *wants shiny Sengokujidai textbooks, too* ;_;*

Unrelated to what you want to discuss about Kiyomasa invading Korea - IIRC from an article I stumbled on he sounded suspiciously like he'd get along with Zaraki Kenpachi (CULTURE WHAT KILL KILL WAR IS FUN). Only he has an extra helping of Nichiren Buddhism, dang there goes that attempt to link DJ Tite to Mirage. XD

[petronia.livejournal.com]

Yes, dude, exactly! I was thinking that too - Kiyomasa would totally get along with Zaraki Kenpachi! Uh, if they don't decide to kill each other for fun.

Helmet of Love: something Kristina saw on Japanese TV which I later checked up on thru Google. XD Kenshin rode into battle wearing a helmet that had "bi" on the front for Bishamonten. Kanetsugu rode into battle wearing a helmet that had "ai" on the front, which apparently said TV show made out to be a reference to his uhh rather special shujuu relationship with Kagekatsu, but as Kristina pointed out is far more likely to stand for Aizen Myouou. ...It's still funny, though. Like Sailor Venus, Buddhist Version!

[inarikami.livejournal.com]

Would anyone like me to make a linkpost re the actual historical Yashashuu members plus assorted onshou?

Sorry for popping in like this, but YES and THANK YOU. ^^ I plan to start a major in Japanese - even though *my* knowledge about Japanese history also only extends to things learnt on teh intarweb and textbooks :P - and am a sucker for random historical tidbits (also, sengoku jidai, Muromachi and Edo being my favourite periods). Mirage related is a plus (still a fangirl deep down inside #^^#), but really, anything historical is fair game.
I'd love to discuss Mirage gen, but since I haven't read the novels, I am only familiar with the history adressed in them on a general scale - which is chotto komarimashita, ne. ^^

But yes, I did raid Wikipedia. Multiple times. :D

(Also would like to say hi and much rabu for your random cracktastic MoB posts, so plz don't stop. XD)

[petronia.livejournal.com]

Heh, great! As long as other people are interested. XD Mirage is actually filled with historical infodumps. My problem reading it is more geography - don't know where anything is.

[inarikami.livejournal.com]

Mirage is actually filled with historical infodumps. My problem reading it is more geography - don't know where anything is.

That's interesting actually, as one would think you only need a detailed (possibly historical) map, but yeah, finding obscure locations might be tough. :) For me, the bucketload of names (and according titles o_O) would cause much more trouble to keep track of.

(Friended you btw, hope you don't mind. ^.^)

[sandpanther.livejournal.com]

*raiese hand* One gen fan who is totally gaga over the history and geography in MoB, at your service. Japanese geography is my specialty. If there is anything you want to know where it is (or what the relevant history is, since most of the places in Mirage have great historical significance to them), please ask me! Please! I love babbling at great length about Japanese geography (just ask cirdan_havens, who has been on the receiving end of more than one babble.) If I don't know where it is, I will find it (Japanese road atlases are my crack), since I'll want to find it sooner or later anyway.

I just haven't gotten far enough in the Mirage novels to be able to comment on too much history. I just started the Sendai arc. (Date Masamune! *heart* Dokkan no Ryuu!!) *sigh* So much more to read. Must poke Kinokuniya to start working getting the next set of cra^H^H^H books.

"Hullo, Mitsuhide. Haven't seen you since the Honnouji incident, have I?"

*wince* I don't even know the context, but that is just *whimper* I'd say tell me that isn't Nobunaga who says it, but I really don't want to know until I get there.

[petronia.livejournal.com]

One gen fan who is totally gaga over the history and geography in MoB, at your service. Japanese geography is my specialty.

Rock on. XD! I suck at historical geography - this goes for Europe as well as for Japan - so it took me ages even to sort out where "Echigo" was. The books themselves are kind of confusing too, I find; 15-19 take place in Kumamoto, but everyone is freezing their butts off. Does Kyuushuu really get that cold and snowy in winter? T_T

[sandpanther.livejournal.com]

I always get Echigo and Echizen confused. It's a good thing I collect maps as a hobby! :)

Does Kyuushuu really get that cold and snowy in winter?

Nope. Particularly not compared to, say, Matsumoto. I was in Kyuushuu in January one year. Not a speck of snow to be seen. Lots of rain, though. (That was annoying.) It was about as cold as San Francisco (where I lived at the time) gets in the winter.

Though my not thinking that Kyuushuu was that cold might be a cultural thing. I noticed that once it's officially declared to be "winter" everyone puts on scarves and over-heats their homes and generally reacts like there is snow everywhere. So it might just be that I tend to take a more casual approach to being cold. Also, it was a fairly dry cold. I'm used to the SF fog, which gets into your bones and freezes you from the inside out.


I get to cheat a lot with the places in MoB, since for whatever reason I seem to have been to a large number of them already. The walls at Kumamoto Castle have got to be seen to be believed -- they are just amazingly tall. And so many of them! Pity the original castle was burned during the Meiji Restoration. Ferro-concrete restorations are all well and good, but they lack the weight of the years that something like Matsumoto Castle has. (Hm, and the Stairs-O-Doom (tm) that the originals lack, which may be a good thing.)

(Er... Japanese castle freak. You might have noticed that... *sweatdrop*)