Music, and analysing PoT to death for the nth time

[petronia]

Beautiful spring day, drenched in sun. Tossed some new music on the mp3 player: Kristin's Byakuya mix, which I finally got around to ripping as I had some idea it'd be more suited for out-and-about than noodling in the basement, and the TeniPuri FST, to stress-test what I've inflicted y'all with. XD (BTW I really appreciate the people who gave detailed feedback on the tracks - that means the Tennis Twins, mostly <33 - it makes me feel slightly less insane, and tells me more about your musical tastes. I am with the musicblogging as I am with my fics: I don't insist or even plead for comments, because people are people are lazy, moi foremost, and I find it bad form to demand of others what I can't be bothered to manage myself. ^^; If I want numbers I go view my tracker. However the more accurate a picture you give me of what you like, the greater the chances that I'd put up something to please you, because after all that's the purpose.)

Unrelatedly: you know, sometimes fandom controversy is illuminating for fic purposes. Really. Take TeniPuri, in which most of the low-level snarking can be traced back to vastly divergent character/pairing preferences, which itself can be traced back to... people not being all the same. Because much as one may like to pay lip service to the idea that It's All Fandom And Shouldn't Be Taken Personally - it really is personal. I mean, it stands to reason, doesn't it, that someone whose favorite character is Kawamura would be quite a different personality from someone whose favorite character is Kirihara? That someone who identifies with Kikumaru has different reactions from someone who identifies with Fuji? ...The point I'm getting at is not so much a platitude regarding the possibility of Everyone Getting Along, but that in a series like this with 5,821 characters, each with their own development arc, one learns interesting things by watching people's knee-jerk emotional responses.** People who find Tezuka boring versus people who don't. People who find Ryouma's all-winningness annoying versus people who don't. Now you have the people who find Fuji's lack of motivation - the most accurate word is insulting - versus (I suspect) the people who secretly like him a little better for it. Extrapolation, of course, but I think it's the people who have played and enjoyed competitive sports that fall in the former category, and in the latter you have... at least all the people who themselves can't be motivated to win at something like tennis. This is not to say they wouldn't play, either, if it came easy - I would! - because activities that come easy tend to be more fun than activities that don't. However if the activity is by definition competitive then it becomes a bit of a travesty (this can be argued - for analogous reasons I find abstract painting to be a bit of a travesty). I don't think it makes them out to be lazy people, necessarily; but there are people in whom competition doesn't bring out the best and brightest, and my RL experience is that it's difficult for understanding to reach across that particular divide. More to the point - setting aside the question of intellectual understanding - I think it's possible for the latter group to admire the former, but I'm not so sure it's possible for the former group to admire the latter.

The truth is that Fuji is only where he is because of a vastly unfair natural advantage, that he has sense enough to realise doesn't actually reflect well on him as a person - and because he also has sense enough not to let anyone know what he's really thinking. You have to figure he realises pretty fast he screwed up, telling that to the captain for chrissake. Thus, "If I ever become a liability, kick me off the team" - if he ever became a liability due to a lack of desire to win no one in Seigaku would want him on the team, and he's letting Tezuka know he's not dumb enough not to realise it. We've discussed how Fuji probably never grokked Tezuka's "Nationals above all", or taken him as seriously as he should have even when Tezuka tells him to his face; double dollars to doughnuts says Tezuka didn't take Fuji seriously either when he came out with that bit about playing for the thrill of toying with the opponent. How alien is that to Tezuka? And one may as well be glad of the profound lack of understanding, because how Tezuka would despise him otherwise.

** For your information, I'm also carrying The Little Prince in my bag. No, seriously, I am. I decided to give up, give in and just re-read the damned thing, and the only time I have for doing it is on the metro to work.

Comments

[worldserpent.livejournal.com]

<3s. This is so true, and I am in awe of your fandom analysis skills (damn, you should unlock this entry and make it public to the fandom so I can link it..... ).

TMI, but I sort of understand Fuji's 'lack of motivation' in that there are things I'm good at (but not sports :P) that I don't need to work at as hard as others. But this is true of most things in life: hey, life is not fair. Some people lucked out genetically or through nuture... in a sense, most competitive things *are* travesties. However, it is uncomfortable both for the lucky person (they didn't earn it all, did they?) and for the envious (I worked my ass off, and I still didn't get as good a score as that naturally gifted person who put in two hours). Then people begin to feel rather socialist about everything, if the gap between effort and outcome becomes obvious.

IRL, I don't watch competitive sports (except during the Olympics I sometimes watch things like figure skating, gymnastics, that are more like performances, really), and I never played any in high school, nor did I enjoy playing sports personally, and I had no motivation to try doing them well, so perhaps that's why I don't really feel that that attitude is 'insulting.'

But in a sense there is a thrill in accomplishing things that are difficult, so the naturally gifted miss out on the enjoyment of overcoming. I suppose the 'Fuji is on higher spiritual plane' argument (that he doesn't need to prove himself through competition, and that indicates he is without desire and thus more whole), could explain some of it too. But I like how Fuji shows in 218 that he does understand this even if he doesn't feel it, and that he does understand it would be disasterous to let people in on the secret, though I suspect that the higher level players do realize it, which is why Tezuka is the guy to beat and not Fuji, that they respect Tezuka's attitude (what do you think Sanada thinks of Fuji?) [Hmm, Fuji is more problematic, and thus more 'interesting' a character than Tezuka, but I think I still do admire Tezuka more. It's my upbringing, probably.]

(On the TeniPuri fanon track, sorry, I hadn't realized that you did want feedback. I really like getting comments too. My favorite song on there was Flamboyant, which I can so see someone creating a fanvid for (jeez, it isn't that different from canon!Atobe. 0_o). Oh, and you are too cruel to Kamio. And I especially liked the Erasure tracks, even though they are frightening when applied to the fanfics in question. )

[petronia.livejournal.com]

Well, I just unlocked it, but I'm not going to comment at length immediately because lj just disappeared a lengthy response I wrote to sai's comment. -_____-;; Later, when it turns up.

[petronia.livejournal.com]

I wonder what it makes me then... Because I will feel competitive if placed in a competitive situation, like if you asked me to play chess or join a debate team for class marks. I just dislike the feeling, because it gives me a sort of... karmic "dirt" sensation afterward, like that miasma discussion you linked to once. :/ (Which incidentally I'm going to have to dig through your archives to find - the idea plays a very large role in PMK.) I feel that I've engaged my emotions in something futile and ultimately meaningless, and that I'm the worser person for it. It's very much like the feeling I get after I've had an irritated outburst at someone. Thus I now debate only to reconcile or clarify, and mostly refuse to play even card games. Maybe I'm just a born Buddhist. XD

Actually I made a mistake along the same lines before 218, thinking Fuji was like me, whereas his issue isn't really the same thing at all. And I do certainly feel that Tezuka is the more admirable person. :/ I'm not sure Sanada thinks anything of Fuji in particular, which probably only goes to show.

Oh, like I said, feedback isn't compulsory, though comments are always fun. <3 And anime!canon!Atobe seems designed for speed, so as to outstrip the fangirl imagination.

[worldserpent.livejournal.com]

I will feel competitive if it's a situation where it's a good idea for me to feel that way. But there's no point at competing if you're just going to lose even if you try hard. The miasma oughtn't to be hard to find; I think it's in the title. But your philosophy is interesting, because I don't really like card games either. (Although, I wonder if this influences your view of Shounen Jump series. For example, I have a really hard time with Hunter X Hunter, because of this) I prefer debating to clarify, because I feel on most of these issues the real root of difference is not something that can be changed through argument, but a personality difference.

Well, Sanada or Yanagi must think something of Fuji, but I'm feeling very fanonical these days because I just finished reading too much fanfiction, which has led me to clarify my own personal fanon based on disagreement with the collective opinions of fandom. -_-

[fable.livejournal.com]

double dollars to doughnuts says Tezuka didn't take Fuji seriously either when he came out with that bit about playing for the thrill of toying with the opponent. How alien is that to Tezuka? And one may as well be glad of the profound lack of understanding, because how Tezuka would despise him otherwise.

Do you really think so? (The part about Tezuka despising Fuji if he learned that Fuji was being serious about what he said.) I mean, he must've had at least some sort of idea that this was the case, right? And, and, he likes Fuji, right?

*clinging desperately to her TezuFuji*

[petronia.livejournal.com]

Do you really think so? (The part about Tezuka despising Fuji if he learned that Fuji was being serious about what he said.) I mean, he must've had at least some sort of idea that this was the case, right? And, and, he likes Fuji, right?

Oh, I do think so. I hadn't considered it before the fandom analogy occurred to me, but now that it has I do think so. I also think that's the last slip of the tongue Fuji's ever going to make regarding that. ^^;;;

...And no I don't think Tezuka had or has any clue what's going on in Fuji's head - apart from the fact that it may not be completely kosher - and yes I'm suggesting that Fuji should continue to lie like a Persian rug if he cannot in fact convince himself to think like Tezuka (and he may yet! >_>), and no I can't really conceive of that as a bad thing. Fuji'll probably quit the bloody game one day, y'know, rendering the whole issue moot - and in a general sense it wouldn't kill Tezuka to learn to appreciate a person and not relate it directly back to tennis. I sometimes wonder about that: has he ever articulated to himself, say, that Ooishi is his friend? Apart from the fact that Ooishi is his vice-captain, and they have a shared goal/dream dating back to their freshman year? This is a guy who goes with you to the doctor's office, for cripes' sake, and who'll probably give himself an ulcer worrying about your injury and ruin his health way before said injury ruins yours. But I have the sneakingest suspicion that Tezuka thinks what Ooishi is worried about is the effect on the team, and is perfectly okay with that idea. =_=

Basically I'm a romantic cynic, or a cynical romantic. :P Soul communion is the last thing I believe in: I think that if you're dealing with complex personalities, relationships of any type will probably start off based on misconception, and in fact had better be. But that doesn't necessarily mean they won't work out.

[fable.livejournal.com]

See, this is exactly the idea that I've been fighting against ever since 218 came out. One of the reasons I liked TezuFuji more than the other Tezuka pairings was because I thought that they did care for each other, as more than just teammates and tennis players. Fuji seemed to be the only one that Tezuka ever asked personal questions of - the scene during the Yuuta/Ryouma match, where Tezuka says that this must be a difficult situation for Fuji, and the way he looks at Fuji when Fuji answers. And then before the Hyoutei match, when he says to Fuji "You think about your brother a lot, don't you?" In the first scene, especially, he seemed concerned of what Fuji was feeling.

But now I'm beginning to wonder if I wasn't just reading things in the scenes that weren't there, if there's any room in Tezuka's life for anything aside from his ideals - and it's a somewhat disturbing thought. Because I think that Fuji does care for him, and after 218, even looks up to him. And that would make TezuFuji completely one-sided, wouldn't it?

[petronia.livejournal.com]

One of the reasons I liked TezuFuji more than the other Tezuka pairings was because I thought that they did care for each other, as more than just teammates and tennis players. Fuji seemed to be the only one that Tezuka ever asked personal questions of.

Oh, I think you could argue quite convincingly from the given evidence that Tezuka does care. (For one thing, he actually bothers to attempt to pin down Fuji regarding his "true self". Catch Tezuka asking Kikumaru or Inui about his "true self" any day, I'm sure.) What I said was that he doesn't quite know how to care without automatically relating it back to tennis in his head. *g* That only goes so far - even if you were writing TezuRyo there comes a point (prolly past the bedroom door) by which it's no longer feasible to pretend the fascination is all about Seigaku and pillars, except maybe in a perverse metaphorical sense - but you have to reach that point first. And that means registering on his tennis radar.

So let the poor boy have his crutch to lean on, I say; the development of an Emotional Quotient doesn't happen from one day to the next. You never see people questioning that in an InuKai story.

[fable.livejournal.com]

I realized right after I posted the comment that I was probably talking at cross-purposes with you, and addressing a completely different issue. And there really is no right answer for whether Tezuka cares or not - it depends on your subjective interpretation, doesn't it? But, thanks all the same for saying that - I like your interpretation of it quite a lot. *g*

[sesame-seed.livejournal.com]

I should be in bed. ^^"

Instead, I am hijacking my aunt's computer to say:

Regarding competitiveness, earnestness, etc., I am much more like Fuji than Tezuka (as should be, um, rather obvious if one abides by Sabina's theory), so it took a while to couch the situation as Tezuka might see it in terms I could understand emotionally as well as intellectually.

I did eventually succeed when I substituted tennis with writing. XD Imagine working your ass off for days, weeks, months on a story, agonizing over plot points and word choices and whatnot until you just want to toss it into the trash bin and pretend it never existed, and then someone else comes along and says, "Oh, I was bored last night, so I scribbled out this little thing. It's not much, but hope you enjoy," and you realize that it's brilliant, a work of genius, and puts all your pitiful little efforts to shame.

You'd expect to hate that person, right? Except I look around at all of you, and I realize that I don't hate you -- in fact, I rather love you. XD There are occasional twinges of envy, but it's drowned out by simple admiration and affection, and am I starting to sound sappy yet?

The point is, I don't think Tezuka would necessarily despise Fuji even if he truly understood how little winning matters to Fuji, and it certainly wouldn't preclude him from liking Fuji as a person, even if he couldn't accept his attitude as a tennis player. (I am, of course, operating from the theory that Tezuka is human. Possibly he is not, in which case we can none of us use personal experience as a yardstick to judge Tezuka's reactions, unless some of you are alien too and just haven't shared yet.)

And as for that, I have a question -- is there anything to support the theory that they only put Fuji in singles when he has personal incentive to win or the opponents just suck too much? I'm thinking of the five important matches we see before Rikkai -- Fudomine, St. Rudolph, Sengoku and Akutsu's school ^^", Hyoutei and Rokkaku. (I'm excluding Rikkai for the moment because I don't see how they could put anyone but the best they have in singles against Rikkai.) Fuji plays singles only against St. Rudolph, where he expected to go up against Yuuta, and Hyoutei, where he went up against 'the guy who beat his brother in fifteen minutes'.

If this is true, then Tezuka, if he's the one responsible for the line-up, can at least predict the kind of matches in which Fuji will apply himself; the amount of insight into Fuji's thought processes that this implies is uncertain, but at least he must know that the game itself isn't what's important to Fuji, and is conscious enough of this to let it factor into important team decisions.

...or possibly this is just the sleep deprivation talking. XD

[fable.livejournal.com]

The first time I read Sabina's post, my brain pretty much short-circuited at the thought - "Tezuka despises Fuji? But, but, he *can't*!"

But the more I think about it, the more I disagree with the assumption that we can use what happened in fandom and extrapolate it to the series, or even that we like the characters we do because they're the ones that are most like us. Because, despite my love Fuji (and having "The Little Prince" as one of my favorite books), when it comes to competitiveness, I really am more like Tezuka. I haven't play sports for any significant amount of time, but I did play competitive chess for a bit, and one of the reasons I was motivated to play it, to spend hours replaying grandmaster's games and studying every sort of opening style and the most boring endgames imaginable, was because I really, really liked winning. It was the best thrill ever, and I'm pretty much like that about everything. (I'm one of those people that gets upset if they lose at Monopoly, if you'd believe that. *g*)

I think, that was why, until genius 218 came out, that I thought Fuji cared about winning, too, but was just really good at hiding it - because that's how I am. I usually don't play games that I don't think I'll win, and when I do play something, I don't like others to know that it matters to me, and it's even better if they underestimate me and think I'm not very good, because that way they let their guard down, and it's easier and more satisfying to beat them. ;)

But then genius 218 comes out, and it turns out that my previous theory about Fuji was wrong - he really doesn't care about winning or losing at all. But this didn't make me despise him, it just made me even more intrigued - because, if he can play at this level without caring, imagine what he could do if he did care! He'd be completely amazing, wouldn't he?

And this is why I disagree with the theory that Tezuka would despise Fuji, if he ever found this out - I think it's just as likely that he'd see this as a challenge - to make Fuji care, to see what Fuji could do if he was pushed to his limits, the way Fuji liked to push other players to theirs.

What you said about Tezuka putting Fuji in matches where he thinks Fuji would give it all - I don't know if there's any overt evidence of this or not, but it's interesting to speculate, isn't it? Because if it's true, maybe Tezuka does realize, to some degree and at some level, what Fuji is like, and that's why he does that. He doesn't know what Fuji is capable of, and from all indications, he wants to.

So, basically, the point of this post was to say, I agree with pretty much everything you said up there. Which shouldn't come as much of a surprise, because that's what I usually come around to doing, isn't it? *g*

I hope you're having a good time at your trip, Chrissie!

[petronia.livejournal.com]

...And because I failed to remember to make any kind of point with the previous response, here is said point: if it's TezuFuji you want, I don't think it's a sign that TezuFuji is doomed per se, unless of course you're Cathy you want it to be. *g* What it is, is rather bad for the people who think TezuFuji is based off hidden understanding, and that only because they'd have to reconsider. No biggie, it whiles away the time. XD

Also, all of this is really just the plot to one of Hojo Akira's doujinshi, stated somewhat differently. She's way ahead, that woman.

[one-if-by-land.livejournal.com]

You just overloaded my brain in two paragraphs.

I agree with the different personalities bit-- I probably like Fuji because I am secretly cynical and idealistic and sadistic with an unhealthy attraction to manipulation. I also have a long, long mean streak that half of my friends wouldn't believe even if I told them on my deathbed. And I despise Kawamura. Figures. ~_~;;;

About the Tezuka & Fuji thing, I'm think if Tezuka really grasped Fuji's indifference, he would be bothered by it and his opinion of Fuji would lower drastically, but at the same time, Fuji is constantly changing (or maybe the better word is adapting?) in the series because the fandom really doesn't know what he's like. Whenever we try to put him into words, a slip of canon comes and crashes it to the ground.

Tezuka isn't a saint or completely selfless; he's human, and I think he likes Fuji also because of his own delusions. Fuji's someone who's good enough to make Tezuka believe that they can understand each other without the awkwardness of skill and experience levels, and Fuji doesn't care the right amount, says the right things at the time, that Tezuka isn't overly competitive, and that's where their relationship lies. Tezuka will most likely never comprehend just who and what Fuji is, and whenever he comes too close to, Fuji's clever enough to change.

It's like in what one of Chrissie's fics said-- Tezuka doesn't understand Fuji and Fuji doesn't understand Tezuka, but Tezuka trusts Fuji enough to understand what he means. Or, er, something like that.

In my case, I translate that as Tezuka trust himself enough to know that Fuji understands what he means, but that gets into an identity crisis, and I'm saving that concept for the Yayguu and Niou fic that I slaved to Chrissie, so. I'm not quite sure I get most of the theories I talk about anyway. In writing, I feel like I brush on them very lightly, enough to make it sound significant and not so much so that it sounds vaguely profound and not confusing.

I exercise the all brilliant solution to everything: Run away. XD

[petronia.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree. Fuji knows Tezuka just well enough to know what Tezuka should and shouldn't know, and that is the basis for their mutual respect. XD It's amazing how okay I am with this idea; I imagine some people would be horrified by it. But I think if people thought ahead like that more often there'd be a whole lot less acrimony in the world.

Apart from everything, can you imagine what it would be like if Fuji - all else being equal - really did feel a burning desire to compete, and Tezuka was right there? The club wouldn't last long enough for Ryouma to find it. ^^;;;

[one-if-by-land.livejournal.com]

...! it would be like Aishuu and Jennifier_d's epic, "Staring over"! Except Fuji would do it even more in style than Atobe. *grins*

[two-if-by-sea.livejournal.com]

For your information as well, I've started reading The Little Prince too! <3

[petronia.livejournal.com]

D'you like it? ^_^ Sadly it's one of the books that I really have got half-memorised, since I did it in grade 7 English class and re-read it since in several languages. But 50% memorised is 100% frustrating, so I may as well just method act and have done with it.

(Weird shit happens when I write fic constantly about a character, regardless of what I decide. Last Wednesday I went out for sushi and freaked myself out, because in all seriousness the wasabi no longer tasted like anything.)

[two-if-by-sea.livejournal.com]

I have NEVER ever read it before and I adore it so much I want to cry at all my old teachers and ask them how they failed to manage to force me to read this.

Ahahaha. Seriously? I have been eating wasabi for a long time and it still scares me.

[typhoid-mary.livejournal.com]

Maybe it was just a bad batch? Or deliberately toned down to meet the western taste?

[petronia.livejournal.com]

I hope so. ^^; Led to me telling Lux's exposé re how wasabi-inna-tube isn't really wasabi, it's just horseradish dyed an attractive pale green. OTOH I do have a way higher tolerance for it than I used to for the schtuff - think nothing of using wasabi mayo in place of real mayo in sandwiches these days, whereas before I could barely stand to put it in my mouth. One gets used to anything.