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petroniaFeeding on jasmine tea and nori rice crackers, white chocolate cookies, good schtuff like that. Not sleepy. Funny how that extra 30 minutes makes a difference, doesn't it?
Eyes still kind of busted, though.
GB: up to volume 13. Ban with the gel washed out of his hair makes me pointillate eloquently. He looks... he looks like a willowy purple-eyed bishounen. And like he wouldn't get expelled if he went to school. So very odd. And the more I think about it, the more he really is like Ash from Banana Fish. Seriously, how many other characters can you think of who're like, "I'm a rude scruffy bad-boy street hustler, but I also have an IQ of 195, play classical violin and know what all the little forks in a twelve-course dinner setting are for"? It's not exactly a shounen manga stereotype, or at any rate not convincingly so.
I promised to say something about Himiko. By this point I'm not quite sure where to start. Um... how about, she can consciously produce pheromones to render all men within a ten-foot radius her docile and mindless slaves, thus making her officially THE COOLEST WOMAN IN THE WORLD? >:D Is the fandom divvied up into Ban/Ginji and Ban/Himiko supporters, or what? Because I'd rather not navigate that minefield. For one, they're not much different, if only because the set of conditions under which Ban would allow himself to contract emotional ties of any kind is fairly narrow. With Ginji it's because Ginji is constitutionally incapable of conscious betrayal, trusts Ban to a fault and essentially abdicates his mental processes when Ban is around. With Himiko it's because he did her wrong and wants to make up for it; she's not asking for anything he'd be unwilling to give (and incidentally has no idea what really happened between Ban and her brother, but neither do I at this point). In both cases Ban has the emotional upper hand, and most of the literal knowledge too. He didn't consciously put himself there, but there is where he feels safe. He wouldn't feel otherwise, period. Shido loves first, and is incapable of controlling either the love or the consequences thereof, but Shido has the proverbial breast of the savage beast, and Ban only pretends to run on instinct. He's paranoid, our Ban-chan, except - as my friend Justin always says - it's not paranoia if they're really out to get you, and everyone's out to get Ban all of the time, so call his control issues the inevitable result of being as smart as he is and leading the life he's led.
The text, therefore, presents what is essentially an older-sibling to younger-sibling dynamic. The subtext is troublesome, because a brother-sister relationship between two people who aren't actually siblings... well. Take Ban and Hevn; it's an oneesan-otouto relationship, really, except it expresses itself in sexually-charged exchanges (much to Hevn's disgruntlement). You could say that if push ever came to shove, Ban wouldn't seriously consider sleeping with Hevn. You could also say that he would. (I would not advise writing Ayamine-sensei to ask his opinion.) Ban wouldn't and doesn't grope Himiko, not so much because she'd be obliged to reduce him to ashes on principle but because she's like his little sister. Except that's not any less ambiguous, is it?
...The point of the yaoi glasses of fangirl lore is to get rid of genderised conventions that should probably never be there in the first place. So now you can repeat that last paragraph with Ginji as the little brother.
There's no real point. Frankly one's justified in writing anything one likes, that's the beauty of this particular series. XD I suspect I won't write Ban/Himiko, not because I think it's less likely, but because I don't like her to be in that subordinate position. She doesn't have a Raitei to even things up, and that's without taking into account the fact that Ginji's conscious dependency on Ban is a gigantic effing issue, so. I'm halfway through tankoubon thirteen, things could change between the three of them, and frankly I'd be disappointed if they didn't.
Incidentally, if any canonical pairings develop in this thing besides Shido/Madoka, now would be a good time to tell me about it. Keep me from making a fool of myself and wasting my time, as it were. XD
Eyes still kind of busted, though.
GB: up to volume 13. Ban with the gel washed out of his hair makes me pointillate eloquently. He looks... he looks like a willowy purple-eyed bishounen. And like he wouldn't get expelled if he went to school. So very odd. And the more I think about it, the more he really is like Ash from Banana Fish. Seriously, how many other characters can you think of who're like, "I'm a rude scruffy bad-boy street hustler, but I also have an IQ of 195, play classical violin and know what all the little forks in a twelve-course dinner setting are for"? It's not exactly a shounen manga stereotype, or at any rate not convincingly so.
I promised to say something about Himiko. By this point I'm not quite sure where to start. Um... how about, she can consciously produce pheromones to render all men within a ten-foot radius her docile and mindless slaves, thus making her officially THE COOLEST WOMAN IN THE WORLD? >:D Is the fandom divvied up into Ban/Ginji and Ban/Himiko supporters, or what? Because I'd rather not navigate that minefield. For one, they're not much different, if only because the set of conditions under which Ban would allow himself to contract emotional ties of any kind is fairly narrow. With Ginji it's because Ginji is constitutionally incapable of conscious betrayal, trusts Ban to a fault and essentially abdicates his mental processes when Ban is around. With Himiko it's because he did her wrong and wants to make up for it; she's not asking for anything he'd be unwilling to give (and incidentally has no idea what really happened between Ban and her brother, but neither do I at this point). In both cases Ban has the emotional upper hand, and most of the literal knowledge too. He didn't consciously put himself there, but there is where he feels safe. He wouldn't feel otherwise, period. Shido loves first, and is incapable of controlling either the love or the consequences thereof, but Shido has the proverbial breast of the savage beast, and Ban only pretends to run on instinct. He's paranoid, our Ban-chan, except - as my friend Justin always says - it's not paranoia if they're really out to get you, and everyone's out to get Ban all of the time, so call his control issues the inevitable result of being as smart as he is and leading the life he's led.
The text, therefore, presents what is essentially an older-sibling to younger-sibling dynamic. The subtext is troublesome, because a brother-sister relationship between two people who aren't actually siblings... well. Take Ban and Hevn; it's an oneesan-otouto relationship, really, except it expresses itself in sexually-charged exchanges (much to Hevn's disgruntlement). You could say that if push ever came to shove, Ban wouldn't seriously consider sleeping with Hevn. You could also say that he would. (I would not advise writing Ayamine-sensei to ask his opinion.) Ban wouldn't and doesn't grope Himiko, not so much because she'd be obliged to reduce him to ashes on principle but because she's like his little sister. Except that's not any less ambiguous, is it?
...The point of the yaoi glasses of fangirl lore is to get rid of genderised conventions that should probably never be there in the first place. So now you can repeat that last paragraph with Ginji as the little brother.
There's no real point. Frankly one's justified in writing anything one likes, that's the beauty of this particular series. XD I suspect I won't write Ban/Himiko, not because I think it's less likely, but because I don't like her to be in that subordinate position. She doesn't have a Raitei to even things up, and that's without taking into account the fact that Ginji's conscious dependency on Ban is a gigantic effing issue, so. I'm halfway through tankoubon thirteen, things could change between the three of them, and frankly I'd be disappointed if they didn't.
Incidentally, if any canonical pairings develop in this thing besides Shido/Madoka, now would be a good time to tell me about it. Keep me from making a fool of myself and wasting my time, as it were. XD
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no subject
Date: 2003-08-02 02:54 am (UTC)I see their relationship as brother/sister, although it's hard to know what they had when they were younger, but she is a few years younger than him (although I'm not sure how old yamato was, I guess I think of ban as the middle ground). However, I think he was slightly more trusting and happy then, although many bad things had already happened... he just wasn't QUITE as old and cynical and cocky yet. Yamato's last wish was that Ban "take care" of Himiko, I believe, and he is trying to do that, so I can't help but see him as trying to replace Yamato and be the big brother figure to her. I really think SHE thinks of HIM in a sort of wistful romantic fashion (mixed with feelings of "but you're Ban, that would be weird"), but if he sees her as a little sister, I don't know if anything could happen that I wouldn't find squicky. XD
I've said it before, but the thing I don't like about a relationship between them (other than that she seems to turn Ban into "boring shounen hero" instead of "wacky dumbass" and that I don't have a ton of interest in her personally) is that he throws her off. Ban makes Himiko kinda nervous; she doesn't know how to react to the things he says and does (and he takes some enjoyment out of knocking her off-balance). Sometimes she's just like "okay, you're just being a stupid dork today" and rolls her eyes, and sometimes she's like "WTF?!" and slaps or gets angry with him... but they're not on an equal footing. She doesn't play along, and she doesn't seem to understand him. For her, he's on a sort of pedestal sometimes (i.e. when he is being a badass hero) and other times is just this stupid jerk (i.e. when he is all "oh, I know I said you'd get a cut, um, here's an IOU, gotta go!"). Either way, Ban controls what happens, to an extent, and she generally reacts in a way that shows she really has no idea what the hell he's thinking and would like him to STFU plz.
Hevn I adore (and I think Ban would sleep with her if he got the chance, as a sort of fuck-buddy thing, but I don't think they'd ever be in love, ya know? However, I don't believe the reason they DON'T get it on is because of an oneesan-sensation, but more because I see what they have as a working relationship. They are essentially coworkers, and while he is willing to joke around and grope her and be smashed into the wall and stuff, they have boundaries they won't cross because they want to continue having a professional relationship.
no subject
Date: 2003-08-02 02:58 am (UTC)As for Ginji, I don't really see him as being a little brother figure to Ban? What I like about their relationship is the corallary to what I don't like about Ban/Himiko; they're on an equal footing. Yeah, Ginji lets Ban be the brains behind GB, but he's capable of thinking for himself; on those rare occasions he doesn't agree with Ban, he either goes by himself or convinces Ban to do whatever it is anyway. He'll aquiese if Ban has a good reason ("Look, you tard, this is WHY we shouldn't do that"), but he doesn't generally just lie back and take it like an uke. Although to be honest, his personality has changed over the course of the series, and I don't really like where it went. I like early-series Ginji, and I fic him and think of him like that.
Ginji's also the only person who can canonically give Ban a run for his money (well, except perhaps Akabane?). When Akabane asks who won the battle between Raitei and Ban, Ban's all "I'm still here, right?" Ban's not exactly Mr Modesty; if he had kicked Raitei's ass, he would have said so. So, for him, that was a MAJOR conversational dodge. It's been speculated that this means nobody won and that they will battle again (seriously & coherently, not "accidentally crazed ginji") sometime in the future, which I see as possibly likely...
Lastly in this train of thought, their personalities are balanced. Like I said, Ginji doesn't care if Ban's the smart one or if Ban wants to be in control; I think Ginji's had enough of being in control, himself. I don't think there's that mental unbalance between them that exists between Ban and Himiko; Ginji is sometimes surprised by things Ban reveals (either about himself or, more commonly, what he has just thought of), but he's rarely put off, and Ban never seems to really confuse or upset him. Ban frustrates him sometimes, but to me it feels like the manner of an ongoing battle; more like "dammit, why are you always like this? Rar!" rather than "I don't understand WTF just happened with you!"
He understands Ban better than anyone else in the series. It doesn't matter if you posit that they are not gay and are just good friends, because their friendship is interesting for the exact same reasons. They have this weird co-dependant thing going on; Ban doesn't want Ginji to leave him, and Ginji certainly feels like shit when Ban DOES leave him (in recent manga volumes... Ban decides to do it, but there are indications that he's not all "oh well, I just ditched my pal" and okay with it).
When it comes to romance, my personal preference is for friendship that becomes love, and equality between the partners; I see that with Ban/Ginji in a way I don't see it with Ban/Himiko, which is why Ban/Ginji (or Ginji/Ban, which I'm trying to write, mwaha) is my OTP!!!1!!!11!!1!1`1! etc. XD Okay, end sermon. ^^;;
W00t, essay! XD
Date: 2003-08-02 09:21 am (UTC)(Were any of the other Mugenjou characters there, come to think of it? I always assumed they were, but. Maybe they made like Paul whenever Ginji gets stormy and were like OMG OFF TO FIND MY ELECTRICIAN BOOTS NOW KBAI. XD)
Yes. Well... yes. :P I basically agree with everything you said, including the part about Ban throwing Himiko off. She has to run to catch up, and I don't like for her - or anyone - to be put in that position. Ginji is (at least) as powerful as Ban, and their instinctive modus operandi are complementary, and no he doesn't care about the control, and Ban never throws him because he's totally accepting of Ban as a person (not so much when they're working and have different opinions regarding what to do - I don't know if I'm making sense anymore?), so he just rolls with it.
If there's anything I find worrisome - insofar as a manga character could be worrisome, when the creators are so obviously pulling it out of their left ears as they go - it's the fact that Ginji doesn't question the, um, Ban-ness of Ban. (And now I know I'm making no sense. But I plunge ahead!) By this point I would've at least been like, "Hey guy, I notice that people who used to knew you tend to come away with the impression that you fucked them over. Not to say you did per se, but what happened that might've left them thinking that?" Ginji's reactions smack a bit too much of faith to leave me comfortable, especially since Ginji also built his current life and personality around Ban's presence. But then, this is really just because I'm a beady-eyed paranoiac who doesn't believe one should have faith in people. ^^;
(Far's I can tell in fact, Ban is invested in the relationship as heavily and in exactly the same way as Ginji. It's just that he's a lot more aware of it.)
Re: W00t, essay! XD
Date: 2003-08-02 10:02 am (UTC)I think part of it is that Ginji needs someone to believe in, instead of being the person people believe in? The way he behaves is almost like someone having a second childhood (after not being allowed the first one? >_>). He NEEDS to believe in Ban, or even that little happiness in his life will be gone. So you can say it's a very dependant kind of thing.
But on the other hand, I don't think he doesn't believe Ban has done bad things; on the contrary, I think he knows Ban HAS done bad things, and he is not saying "I believe in you [that you didn't do it]" but rather "I believe in you [that you didn't do it for a bad reason]." (Which is sorta what I personally believe too, of course.) He feels like he knows Ban so well that he can support Ban even during tests of his feelings like this. IT IS LUV!!!1!!1 XD Well, it's faith and friendship, basically.
I guess a perception that drives my opinions of their relationship, actions, and so on, is a constant faith of my own in Ginji: that he is not as stupid as he acts.
(My own faith has been challenged lately, though. -_- In the earlier manga he would surprise me with perceptions or actions that hinted at a smarter and more serious person, but recently it sometimes seems like Raitei is the smart side, and the Ginji side is just authentically dumb, which I hate because I write fic and think of Ginji with those two sides of his personality not really separated. If that makes sense. Well, okay, wait till I finish my long fic. It sucks and is horrible and has a dumb see-through cliched plot, but it does kind of express my feelings about the characters.)
And yes, essay time indeed. XD Man, this topic shows me for the long-winded fangirl that I am. XD XD
Re: W00t, essay! XD
Date: 2003-08-02 09:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-08-03 01:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-08-03 01:21 pm (UTC)*whap* "Shut up, that's your sister!"
"Wish she was my sister..."
*whap* "Shut up, that's my sister too!"
(...memory-quoted from "Blue Monday")
No, it's pretty funny, because the actual emotional relationships the characters have are one thing, and follow the usual rules; the ogling of booty is quite another, and is a total free-for-all. XD
Re: W00t, essay! XD
Date: 2003-08-03 02:06 pm (UTC)ohohohoho, right now i'm putting my money on 'the writer hasn't made up his mind so he's being vague and fuzzy and LOOK AT HOW COOL AND MYSTERIOUS IT IS when he actually has no idea what the fuck happened'
i think it was just raitei vs ban- i don't think any of the four kings or anyone else know what happened when they fought, because it might have explained why ginji left mugenjou with ban, and as far as i can see, they were confused as fuck over why ginji was.. suddenly not in mugenjou anymore.
though, little tidbits- before the hospital scene in vol 18 there's a tiny glimpse of young ban / raitei presumably after they've fought and ban says something to the effect of 'heh, so does that mean i won, lightning brat?'... and that's it. but then ginji in the present goes on to talk about how he wanted to be strong like ban, blah blah blah. so make what you will of that. ^^;
damn, how ginji wears his heart on his sleeve, at least regarding his feelings for ban, and even the series creators are aware of it- in the ura fanbook there's even a little section in ginji's character profile that headed with 'he really loves ban!' it's cute
ohohohoho, right now i'm putting my money on 'the writer hasn't made up his mind so he's being vague and fuzzy and LOOK AT HOW COOL AND MYSTERIOUS IT IS when he actually has no idea what the fuck happened'
i think it was just raitei vs ban- i don't think any of the four kings or anyone else know what happened when they fought, because it might have explained why ginji left mugenjou with ban, and as far as i can see, they were confused as fuck over why ginji was.. suddenly not in mugenjou anymore.
though, little tidbits- before the hospital scene in vol 18 there's a tiny glimpse of young ban / raitei presumably after they've fought and ban says something to the effect of 'heh, so does that mean i won, lightning brat?'... and that's it. but then ginji in the present goes on to talk about how he wanted to be strong like ban, blah blah blah. so make what you will of that. ^^;
damn, how ginji wears his heart on his sleeve, at least regarding his feelings for ban, and even the series creators are aware of it- in the ura fanbook there's even a little section in ginji's character profile that headed with 'he really loves ban!' it's cute <:]
<i>"Hey guy, I notice that people who used to knew you tend to come away with the impression that you fucked them over. Not to say you did per se, but what happened that might've left them thinking that?"</i>
maybe something to do with the fact that he's cursed? :\ i'm starting to think that he pushes ginji away during the current manga arc running in japan because he feels like he's going to end up ruining ginji's life as well (he obviously hasn't been able to stop ginji's transformations into raitei o_O) but who knows what's going to happen there.. the arc's called 'take back the eternal bond!' and i think it's referring to the bond between them (which gets broken ._.) because i can't think of any other way to apply it to what's going on.
no subject
Date: 2003-08-03 02:16 pm (UTC)seriously, though, i can't really figure out the himiko-ban dynamic. on her side, he's simultaneously a reminder of a happy life with her brother and also the thing that violently took that happy life away. she gets a little more closure during the card arc (...though frankly, not much, because the answers she gets from _INSERTSPOILERHERE_ are incredibly vauge >:E) but if anything it probably only complicated her feelings for ban o_O she's simultaneously attracted to him and really, REALLY confused by him. and then he does things like grope her and look up her dress. poor girl.
as for ban, i can't really figure out what he feels for himiko either O_O his feelings for himiko seem to get mixed up with his REALLY STRONG FEELINGS for yamato- yamato was probably the first strong male figure in his life and ended up being big brother - father figure - love interest all rolled into one. "O_O" so ban's obsessive protectiveness of himiko has to do with the fact that he promised yamato that he'd protect her >_> at one point, he won't go to criticallyinjured!ginji not because himiko is in danger, but explicitly because 'i promised yamato i would protect himiko' >_>;; so it's hard to figure out ban's feelings for himiko when his feelings for yamato are already so messy.
Re: W00t, essay! XD
Date: 2003-08-03 02:35 pm (UTC)raitei, on the other hand, is ginji's intelligence rather terrifyingly focused, and it's always only focused on one thing- KICK THE ENEMY'S ASS. i mean, it's not like raitei and ban are going to sit around discussing kant's prolegomena or something (...............though honestly thinking about that makes me laugh ._. yes i am dumb k thx)
as for ginji and raitei as separate people or two aspects of the same person; i agree that they're not necessarily separate, but ginji willfully disassociates himself from raitei because it makes it easier for him to deal with the ramifications of raitei's actions.
/me kisskisses puppy and runs off
Re: W00t, essay! XD
Date: 2003-08-04 12:11 am (UTC)...I just had to point that out. XD Will address your actual comments tomorrow, after I've been to bed and am coherent.
Re: W00t, essay! XD
Date: 2003-08-04 01:17 am (UTC)Re: W00t, essay! XD
Date: 2003-08-04 03:03 am (UTC)With "How to Identify This One from The Other One" sections.
SECTION 4: TACKY EARRINGS XD
Re: W00t, essay! XD
Date: 2003-08-04 03:03 am (UTC)Re: W00t, essay! XD
Date: 2003-08-04 09:03 am (UTC)Ginji's powers fascinate me. I mean, in any other series they'd be gimmicky and cute fighter abilities - he can throw lightning bolts and heal by sticking his fingers into a wall socket - but the pseudo-science behind GB's neat-o effects are all about manipulating perception by reaching into people's heads and modifying their neural impulses, and literally that makes Ginji something like the Matrix Messiah. Or rather, he and Ban combined are, because Ban is software but Ginji is hardware.
I'm going to regret actually posting this, I know it.
Date: 2003-08-04 09:14 am (UTC)I've had enough of scheming
And messing around with jerks
My car is parked outside
I'm afraid it doesn't work
I'm looking for a partner
Someone who gets things fixed
Ask yourself this question
Do you want to be rich?
I've got the brains
You've got the looks
Let's make lots of money!
(Someone kill me now. Please.)
Re: I'm going to regret actually posting this, I know it.
Date: 2003-08-04 09:27 am (UTC)oh, right, i was leaving for work. "o_o" /me runs off
Re: W00t, essay! XD
Date: 2003-08-04 01:19 pm (UTC)Same thing as with the characters' abilities - they're organised in such a way that we haven't seen most of what they could potentially do, i.e. no uselessly annoying power-ups.
The thing with Ban vs. Raitei by this point is that it has to be something completely out of left field, because there's no way it can live up to the hype. XD
Re: W00t, essay! XD
Date: 2003-08-04 04:37 pm (UTC)though really, hakase (the creepy chick carrying the bunny plushie- you probably shouldn't call her bunni girl because there's another character that comes along much later who has an outfit with bunny ears XD it doesn't look as stupid as it sounds XD;;;) is sort of her own brand of OMG WTFness. she creeps me out much more than akabane, even in that scene where akabane uuh... kills a certain character, if you haven't gotten to that point yet XD;;;
though really i've always thought that, yes, ginji should be smarter than he is, given what his power is, and the way that information is transferred through the brain o_O i really, really need to get my hands on the latest GB chapters because i've heard they go into akabane's past (!!! especially since his age is listed in the official fanbook as "?") as well as raitei!shiz. some of the japanese gb fansites have been referring to raitei lately as child of god (?!?! i guess they ARE going with the whole messiah thing then >_>) so i figure we're going to learn a lot more about the ginji/raitei connection real soon O_O
Re: W00t, essay! XD
Date: 2003-08-05 09:13 am (UTC)Re: W00t, essay! XD
Date: 2003-08-05 01:13 pm (UTC)or, section 23: how to add hairbands so you can use the same hairstyle again >D (*cough*shido and ban*cough*)